Yes or No to an October Grey Cup?

2 weeks might be worth a try. If things improve, try 4 weeks. If it fails, undo it.

Again, I am fine with it but we really need to look at the Canadian TV ratings because that is where we might see a real downside.

I agree. Fair weather brings more in.

Exactly Kevin why kill the goose with the golden egg in November ?

This makes no sense . I hear Calgary folks complain but I see they had 30,000 at the game . So what exactly is your argument when on labour day you had 33,000.
Plus there is sour grapes with the last two losses at the Grey Cup .

What really is going on here ?

If TSN and CTV came out honestly and said move the games to June to make room for the NFL I would understand .

Just be HONEST about it .

Ibelieve it when I see it that some US deal is worth 60 to 100 million to the CFL just moving the games to June .

Howdumb do you think CFL fans are ?

Yikes, Hank! Why the dramatics? All I did was agree with someone who suggested we move up the season 2 weeks.

If it doesn't get moved, I don't care.
If they have a 2 week trial, that's okay with me as well.

What deal ? Where do they show June profits in the US is superior to November Canadian profits . Who kills the one time of the year you have a show case event and place it against the traditional time for Major League Baseball Playoffs .

Again where is the money ? What network looks at Canadian Spring football and said jeepers I like the CFL but I need more June I can make a killing in the US .

This is sneaky using the red herring of a few fans who may complain to make it into a possible NFL development league or Spring league .

This is a major change . Canadian football at one time started in August and ended in December . This dismantles a huge tradition .

This is about the NFL and someone making room for the giant . It reeks of it .

I am just not afraid to say it .

Not mad at you Kev or anyone here I love all my CFL brothers . As I said now for the 5th time this is not about a week or two it's about October and I think eventually a spring/summer league that will have little or no overlap with the NFL .

I have been around the block and I can tell when a maneuver is being made that has insincere qualities and this smells of it .

I remember when I first heard C and S sign to go back to Rogers instead of going ahead with York University I said to myself surely they will get exclusive rights to football at the stadium . It wasn't long after that Rogers announced the Bills series .

As I said a few times maybe the best thing if the CFL dies out and it reemerges more Canadian however with an NFL team in Toronto I doubt it .

When I see the Toronto stadium even at the play offs not selling ; something has to give and I think people in larger circles than ourselves see that the CFL needs to change or die . The CTV BCE group are heavily invested in the NFL and wish to continue this investment .

Follow the money . Maybe a Spring/Summer League won't be so bad who knows but be honest about it .

No worries, Hank. :slight_smile:

I don't think it will be a spring league - at least not in our lifetime.

Simply put, people are not attending games. Is it because of the weather? Yes. But it also has to do with being able to watch games on a 70 inch TV in our homes. However, the CFL can't do anything about the 70 inch TV. They can do something about the weather - by moving the schedule.

Anyway, I am okay either way. It MIGHT be worth a try.

How can this be an NFL development league if they're looking a moving the schedule to be further away from it.

A true development league would change the schedule September through January with a championship game in February to make use of call ups.

And a spring league? How does proposing having the championship game in.....October....qualify it as such?

I truly don't think this is on anyone's radar.

I don't think the NFL has anything to do with it.

baby steps goose baby steps .

What's stopping it from moving it even further up to September or August . If you really want to grow the US market you can't conflict with the US market .

October is just a trial . I see a bigger picture and motivation .

Toronto is in horrendous condition . One owner wanted to buy the Bills the other has invested heavily in the NFL . MLSE's lost brother Rogers wanted the NFL .

It's the tail that wags the dog .

If I am wrong and I hope I am I see absolutely no purpose in Toronto to have June football . How does this help Montreal , BC or Toronto the three problem franchises ?

Maybe a spring/summer league won't be so bad .

I think you are seeing people on the Grassy Knoll, Hank.

I don't believe there is anything there.

Motive and money Kev . I would do it if I wanted an NFL team and not be the one who killed the CFL . Move it to September .It makes even more sense at least will have the month to ourselves for playoff and grand ending Grey Cup .

You have to remember the owners Kev ? I think if Toronto filled the stadium the last two years this would not be happening but the Argos were selling playoff tickets
for 25$ and they didn't sell . The 2016 Grey Cup embarrassed the owners. This in a city where crappy seats at the ACC for Leafs game are 400 $ for a nothing regular season game .

You really think cool weather in November stops people from going to games when Green Bay . Pittsburgh , NewEngland and Denver pack the house in January .

nah this is about something bigger . Which is fine just be honest with us.

Not being dramatic I just see an October start as something much bigger and maybe it would be better who knows but this is not about the weather . This is about
US involvement in the future .

Baby steps....in the other direction. Hard to call an October Grey Cup a championship for a spring league unless the league their real motive is growing their TV money in Australia or somewhere else in the Southern Hemisphere lol

This will only happen if the money is worth it....which will help Toronto, Montreal and all 9 teams.

I don't see any major hit attendance wise in June. In 2015 and 2016, the Argos resperspective biggest crowd of the year was in June. This year, they're worst crowd was in June. A change won't effect anything here.

Really look at one side of BMO last year I counted about 180 people . That's one grassy knoll.

I have seen teams die before and Toronto should be dead several times over but it isn't because they are the league .

I actually applaud Ambrosie now .

Maybe it's time we faced reality in Canada .

Pro sports are a hard business and the CFL has been one philanthropic adventure . Just ask the private owners .

Loved it for so long and had the blinders on but if they need to change to get investment maybe it's the way to go . Maybe the situation is more dire than we can see . Maybe there is no business case for CFL in Toronto ?

I don't fret about it but I really like honesty in any relationship . When your significant other wants to make major changes you really have to step away and look at your situation . This is one of those occasions .

Re : ~Maybe there is no business case for CFL in Toronto ?~

There is NO case for the CFL in Toronto unless you own TSN and you need a team in the Toronto market to provide high rated Canadian content. Thank God that is the case.


If they want to bring the NFL to Toronto, they dont need to make the CFL a spring league. The Argos are at BMO and Torontos NFL team would own/run them at a (rounding errors) loss.

I think you are seeing things, Hank.


Anyway, I have to move on because this has been argued to death. :slight_smile:

I voted no : but now I see the motivation behind it and understand it better .

Whatever will be will be .

Have a good night, Hank, and leave your mind open for the possibility that you are wrong and seeing things. :wink:

Yes I hope I am wrong . Usually unfortunately I am right especially about motive . This is a best case scenario for the CFL ,TSN ,CTV , Tannenbaum , Rogers and NFL .

You move this league to a safe place and it may grow and you have good intentions behind it .

A spring/summer league could get you a national US TV contract and US teams .

This is good for TSN and CTV as they get to have their cake and eat it too .
It's a brilliant move it just cuts like a knife .

A Grey Cup Canadian Thanksgiving Sunday may do the trick with Monday a holiday . This has training camp in April . The end of the regular season Labour day weekend the week before the NFL starts . Playoffs in September all to themselves and only a small conflict with the beginning of MLB playoffs first round for the Grey Cup .

The schedule and playoffs are fine the way they are now. Remember, Grey Cups were played in December at one time, and if I remember correct, that last December GC was in 1973. Late November is the perfect time to have the game... a month or so before Christmas, and just before to after American thanksgiving, maybe they should try to schedule the game during their 4 day weekend, so all the crazy Canucks who actually go to the States for Black Friday can watch the game there, and give the Americans a different brand of football to watch.

Ambrosie was on Jay and Dan saying the majority of fans want the season moved to October . Maybe he should take a look at this poll as that’s not the case at least here ; where there is a good cross section of fans nationwide .