Would you sign QB Vince Young if you were a CFL GM?

Griffin does not have the most talented cast of players either including no receiver equivalent to Steve Smith. 6th-round draft pick RB Alfred Morris sure has been a surprise.

Here if you think I am in the minority who think Cam Newton is an extreme jack-butt on and off the field:

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/cam-newton-attitude-didn-t-win-him-friends-225644136--nfl.html]http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutd ... --nfl.html[/url]

Newton deserves all the misery that will befall him not only due to his antics in college but also for stating that he wanted to be an 'icon' in the run up to his draft pick. Charasmatic? Yeah right whatever and down with Carolina too for being dumb enough to sign Newton instead of trade him somewhere else. :thdn: :thdn: :thdn:

Note that this lame author, hanging on to whatever crap career he thinks he has in sport journalism at lowly Yahoo!, plays the race card to give him benefit of doubt! :roll:

Uh, what year is this? Why else would that move be necessary in such an article critical of Newton or any QB?

Talk about revisionist. Russell had a pretty successful college career and looked pretty darn good when he shredded pretty good Notre Dame team in the Sugar Bowl. But this is getting off the point. You said Russell got protected when he was in Oakland, then switched to say ESPN was protecting him when he was at LSU as your proof that he was protected in Oakland. Now you’re arguing Russell’s LSU career. Show me where anyone said anything positive about Russell after he played for the Raiders.

No, sir, go into it. Go into it as deep as you can. I’d love to see you get into the nitty gritty and tell me exactly how Carolina’s current roster is stocked with Pro Bowl-calibre players. You only want to sit on the surface, but I really want to see you go deep and get your hands dirty.

And his roster was not fine in 2011. In fact, it was that thinking that got Carolina into this mess. They thought their team was good enough, but anyone with half a brain would have told you it wasn’t. Their running game is pathetic and their defense is a sieve. They have one receiver and a decent tight end, but that’s about it. They need better players, period. Newton isn’t the problem in Carolina any more than Sam Bradford is the problem in St. Louis.

So who was better in 2010 in college football than Cam Newton? Which player should have won the Heisman that year if Newton winning was BS?

Don’t give me that character matters. If that’s the case, then Johnny Football shouldn’t be allowed to win the Heisman because he was arrested. These are college kid; show me one college kid that doesn’t get in trouble or hasn’t been in trouble before. People make mistakes and that shouldn’t be used against them for the rest of their lives. Cam Newton did nothing shameful the year he won the Heismen. Reggie Bush never should have been stripped of it either.

I don’t like or dislike Newton. I enjoy watching him play, but I could say the same thing about Andrew Luck and Adrian Peterson and Calvin Johnson and Aldon Smith and JJ Watt and… There are a lot of players I enjoy watching. If you don’t think Newton is charismatic, I don’t know what to say.

“They” didn’t look past it at all. His past was fully acknowledge. Everyone knew he was a bonehead at Florida, got kicked out for stealing a laptop, went to Blinn College and then went to Auburn. His story was no secret. What “they” did do, however, is not kill a kid for making a mistake. You make it sound like you’re only allowed to make once mistake and no one is allowed to get a second chance. I guess you never screwed up before.

QB rating? That’s a very flawed statistic. Griffin has been a better passer than Newton, sure, but both players are similar in style. As I said, let’s see how Griffin performs in year 2. He could have the same sophomore slump as Newton.

Santana Moss, Pierre Garçon and Joshua Morgan have all played at a decent level. Not Steve Smith, sure, but each have accomplished more than Brandon LaFell.

And Alfred Morris follows in a long line of late-round running backs that flourish under Mike Shanahan. Maybe the names Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Reuben Droughns and Tatum Bell. He also had Clinton Portis, but he was a second-round choice. Shanahan utilizes running backs better than almost any coach out there. Morris’ success is no surprise to me.

Ah Blogs you sure put up a good fight but no I won't go further after I have made almost all of my points and so have you from what I read.

And of course though there are similarities, this thread should get back to Vince Young more than Cam Newton anyway.

Maybe someone can start another thread some time when Cam Newton is in the news for something bad again so we can resume our debate. :slight_smile:

Yes

Here's the latest on Vince Young who apparently is so determined out of massive financial necessity:

[url=http://nfltraderumors.co/qb-vince-young-determined-to-return-to-nfl/]http://nfltraderumors.co/qb-vince-young ... rn-to-nfl/[/url]

The wiser would treat him correctly as a hot potato.

Young received a 350K signing bonus from the Bills which would be the reason why he did not sign with the CFL. The Bills as we all know released him and their have been no takers since. He will hope that those same offers are still on the table from those CFL teams for 2013. If he is confident in his abilities hooking on with the Arena Football1 getting himself into game shape and be dominating. It would seem that he was not prepared or in football shape this season. The Arena1 is a league in which players can prove themselves or re prove themselves much like Ahhmad Carroll did reproving himself and earning a spot with the Argos as well as Tony Washington did to prove himself and has now put himself in a great position to be a top LT in the CFL.
If Vince Young wants it he is going to have to do these kinds of things. In the end in pro football you have to earn it in the here and now. He will only be 30 next year and can still carve out a nice second football career but he has got to want to do the work that comes with it.

CFLSteve said it well. It probably will take a reconditioning program via the likes of the dreadful arena or other indoor league for him to contend again. Wow those Bills sure know how to throw money away!

On Sunday Vince Young pleaded to play in Arizona given that two of their QBs suck and one is merely a very raw rookie:

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/vince-young-asks-larry-fitzgerald-job-twitter-012511101--nfl.html]http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutd ... --nfl.html[/url]

This is ridiculous. If Vince Young wants a job he needs to earn it. He had his shot with the Bills at Training camp and was not up to the task. If the NFL has not called him by now they are not going to for the 2012 season. As I said whomever gives him a chance to play he will need to come in ready to play and in football shape. He is only 29 which for a QB is not old. He has plenty of time to reinvent himself and still find employment in Pro Football but he can not count on his college reputation anymore. Give me a pro football focused Vince Young in game shape and I would sign him it is up to him now. Crucial off season for him.

Would be great to see what Young could do up here with a wider field (his skill set in college was scary).
The key to signing Young is to keep him out of the strip clubs. Apparently the guy loves em' and keeps losing his money at them so I guess Montreal would be the last place he should play :wink:

However, as was mentioned previously, Troy Smith could be a great CFL qb. Similar skill set to Yuong, but nowhere near the headache.

Smith played last season 2011 in the UFL along with Jeramiah Masoli of the esks. Smith signed a futures contract with the steelers in JAN 2012 but was released in June and has not received any other NFL offers. Smith has played four seasons in the NFL making him eligible for an NFL pension after TC in Miami in 2011 and short stint with UFL 2012 will be his 2nd season out of the NFL and 1st season not playing anywhere. He appears to be following a trend a lot of good NFL players are taking getting the most out of the NFL acquiring there pension and while they are still good football players in their prime age of the Mid 20’s, a little older for a QB, take their career North to the CFL and cntinue to pay for play on the pro level and receive a 2nd pension from the CFL.
The CFL has become much more appealing to players. Financially stable, solid fan base and TV deal, and now new and upgraded venues. This looks to be a good trend for both players and the CFL as players like Joe burnettt, pat watkins, korey sheets, Chad Simpson to name a few off the top of my head had fantastic football seasons in the CFL and are prfesionals. Good at there craft and are not any problems.

For Ottawa it will also be a nice group to target when bringing in imoprts. The Renagades did not have these type of players available when they came into the league with the Arena League at its best.

I don’t think the league is any more appealing now than it was before. We used to get guys right out college who were stars but were spurned by the NFL for various reasons. (usually to have them play different positions). Other times we, had guys who came up here because starters up here were making comparable money to 2nd stringers down there. Nowadays, we have far too many players (Troy Smith being one of these) who choose to be 3rd on the depth chart or worse, out of football all together rather than playing up here. Smith went to the UFL solely because he wanted to remain free if any NFL opportunity became available. A move to the CFL would complicate this. However, if a team could offer him a decent amount of money, and he knew if he played well he could really cash in as a starter, he might ditch the NFL idea all together. The league needs to up its salary cap significantly the second the new TV deal is signed.

That is exactly my point for a guy like Troy Smith he has now gone two seasons out of the NFL. He has carried his clipboard, got his NFL pay, got the NFL pension and he still has the ability to play. The CFL will offer him a chance to continue to play for pay and the Cap will begin to rise to coincide with the TV deal. The TV exposure has already gotten corporate sponsorship way way up. Smith has a chance to become a starter which now comes with a 400K salary in the CFL and will be getting a second pension from the CFL

I’ll take a Troy Smith any day of the week, but I want him up here the moment being a starter in the NFL is no longer an option; not when he hasn’t played a meaningful down in 2 seasons. If star QB’s were making $600,000-$700,000 (or more) you might get a guy like that years earlier. Heck, if the pay was higher, you might have gotten a player like Smith straight out of college; Heisman trophy in hand. A generation ago, guys spurned the NFL for the CFL right out of college, not only as a last ditch resort after all (and I mean ALL) NFL options have vanished. The fact that Smith is sitting on a couch somewhere while his skills (and perhaps even more importantly his drawing power) diminish while CFL fans get treated to Quinton Porter on an active roster is just plain wrong. Like I said, the moment the new TV deal is signed the league needs to address this issue

I agree the salary difference and low cap in place the CFL can no longer get these guys right out of college and you can’t blame a guy playing sport that averages a span of 3 years to try to make as much as possible and become eligible for an NFL pension.
With that being said the CFL trend continues of getting players with 4 or 5 years of training in the NFL and then hits the CFL in his mid 20’s, or late 20’s for a QB, the NFL is flipping the Bill to train these players so when they get to the CFL they are already to step in. It is a different time and a different era for pro football in North America and the CFL is beginning to take advantage of the system that is in place.

Ya, for sure you can’t blame anyone for taking the money. That’s all the more reason why the league needs to get its butt in gear and raise the cap so we can get these guys here when they are at their marketable best. Most of the guys playing QB these days have never had more than a cup of coffee in the NFL. Besides, the NFL doesn’t help much when it comes to learning the Canadian version of the game. And when a guy like Smith would rather make $0 rather than playing here, something’s not right. An NFL pension pays just a few hundred a month for every year played so in a 4 or 5-year career, that ain’t much. Smith only appeared in a handful of games so his pension would be tiny and even then he can’t claim it until he’s much older. If a guy could come up north and earn more or near the amount he could in the NFL +PLUS+ a legit chance to start, we might start attracting guys like Smith.

the cap will have to go up that will be the key and even then the chance of getting a guy like Troy Smith right away for even 700K may be tough when a million is on the table. Tiny steps though. Maybe with the Salary up to 700K a player like smith the moment that he begins to bounce that he will come directly to the CFL say after 3 seasons while still a back up come to the CFL for similar cash but the chance to start.
I surely do misss the days whenJC Watts, Turner Gill came right from top NCAA schools and right to starting lineups in the CFL

I miss those days too. Here’s hoping that a new era will dawn once the new TV deal is signed. :thup:

The CFL trying to compete with NFL salaries is a fools folly. Regardless of how much we pay to lure NFL QB's to the CFL, there will still be the foot soldiers earning $45,000-$60,000, a salary range which encompasses half the league's players. The league has more than enough players willing to sign for that amount. Even raising the average salaries by $10,000 would increase the salary cap by nearly 20%. Where will this money come from? Should every dime from the projected increase from TV be given to the players or to a failed NFL QB's? How does this help Argos and Ticats become profitable? Who says these fringe NFL QB's will play any better than a hotshot college grad or a QB developed by the CFL team over several seasons (and whose salaries fit into the existing pay structure)?

Another factor is NFL salaries are probably unsustainable. These are the glory days in the NFL, but there will be pressure in future contracts to lower the TV rights fee. The fact is the U.S. TV networks lose about half a billion dollars a year on their NFL and Super Bowl broadcasts. The networks had been willing to accept these losses as the NFL brought much prestige (plus the carry-over factor when viewers fall asleep during the NFL game, they don't change the channel and thus driving up the ratings for the next program). But the networks are now losing money heavily as more and more viewers are shunning network TV for cable stations, internet and media downloads. The network shareholder's will soon demand they improve their bottom line or the CEO's will be sent packing. This could have dire effects on the NFL bubble.

So maybe the CFL had it right all along? TSN makes fabulous profits on their CFL and Grey Cup broadcasts and the TV rights fee could double next year. The majority of CFL teams are profitable too, unlike most of the NHL and NBA teams which are money-sinkholes, mainly due to the ridiculously high player salaries. :expressionless: