Would Fleming have scored a TD had he recovered the ball?

Hey folks,

Need some verification on this one. In the play where the Argo returner played cutie-cutes with the punt and Pat Fleming came rushing into the endzone and knocked the ball out of bounds...had Fleming recovered and controlled the ball, would that have been a Hamilton TD?

Yes. It would have been a touchdown

Yes. The ball was live for the punter and would have been officially ruled a fumble recovery for a touchdown.

Oski Wee Wee,

Fleming only has to touch the ball first and last as it went out ,not control the ball....yes?

What puzzles me is, in the field of play (ie: outside the endzone) the last player to touch the ball before it goes out of bounds gets possession. But why is this not the case in the endzone? I know you can't award a TD for it, but since a penalty in the endzone on a punt return is applied from the 10 yard line, it would make sense to similarly award possession at the 10 to the punting team if the kicker (or any onside player) knocks it out of bounds in the endzone.

Fleming has to have control of the ball in the end zone for it to be a touychdown. From what I remember of that play, Fleming came in and knocked the ball out giving Hamilton a singele.

No, not having control would have been a safety for us, giving us 2 pts plus the ball.

No Crash I challenge that one ,(flag at my feet)

In the end zone, he would need to recover the ball with possession for it to count as a TD. If the ball went into touch out of the endzone after he was the last player to touch it.

Levingston downed the ball, so the play was ruled dead before Fleming knocked the ball out of touch.

Here are the rules involved:

SECTION 9: OUT OF BOUNDS
Article 4
When a player directs the ball, other than by kicking, from the field of play over the opponent's goal line and hence out of bounds in the goal area without the ball touching an opponent, it shall be ruled as a fumble out of bounds in the field of play, with the ball declared dead at the point where it was last touched in the field of play.

Article 5
When a player fumbles or directs the ball from the field of play into own goal area, where the ball goes out of bounds without possession being gained by either team, a safety touch score shall be awarded.

Article 6
When a player directs the ball other than by kicking, from the field of play over the opponent's goal line where it is recovered by an opponent, or is touched by an opponent before going out of bounds in the goal area, there shall be no score and the ball shall be awarded to the opponent's team at its 25 yard line. If in attempting to run the ball out of the goal area the opponent's team commits an infraction the penalty shall be applied from the 25 yard line.

Article 7
When a team in its own goal area fumbles or directs the ball, other than by kicking, across the goal line and out of bounds in the field of play without touching an opponent the non-offending team may:

Accept a two point score if the offending team had previously directed the ball into its own goal area, or
Accept a one point score if the non-offending team had kicked the ball into the goal area, or
Decline the score and require the team entitled to possession to scrimmage the ball 24 yards in from the point where the ball went out of bounds.
If prior to the fumble or offside pass out of bounds the player's team had gained possession in its goal area by intercepting a forward pass or recovering an opponent's fumble from the field of play it shall be awarded the ball at its 25 yard line without option.
Article 8
A player of either team who goes out of bounds, except as a result of bodily contact, must remain out of that play. Penalty: L10

If such player should enter the field and touch or recover a loose ball.

Article 9
When a team in its own goal area kicks the ball out of bounds in its own goal area, the ball shall be deemed to have become dead in the goal area and the opponent shall be awarded

a single point if the ball had been kicked into the goal area by the opponent, or
a safety touch score if the ball had been kicked, passed or carried into the goal area by the team scored against.
If the team in its own goal area had gained possession through interception of a forward pass or recovery of an opponent's fumble, there shall be no score and the team shall take possession at its 25 yard line.

If, under similar circumstances, a team should kick the ball out of bounds in the opponent's goal area without gaining possession, the play shall be ruled as though the opponent had kicked the ball out of its own goal area.

Source: http://www.cfl.ca/index.php?module=page&id=7#I

Oski Wee Wee,

Crash wins the challenge. Article 5 is the issue.

Oski Wee Wee,

I'm still confused ,like all the fans that sat around me,so I don't mind challenging for fun here.....
Holymackinow.

:?

If the above quote is the basis of the ruling then I challenge again.

Fleming did not fumble or direct the ball in our end zone ,it was the Argos end zone .

So a different ruling will apply!

hmmmmm

I know Levingston touched the ball first and therefore it is a single .

But hypothetically if Fleming touched it first he is a heroe and a TD is awarded ...No?

Doesn't the receiving team have to gain (and subseqently lose) possession of the ball in order for a safety to be awarded?

If the ruling was that Levingston had possession when he put his hand down on the ball with his knee down and the play was dead at that point, then the ruling that was made makes sense.

Yes ,the correct ruling was made .

But hypothetically the question is ...IF Fleming touches the ball first and last in the Argo endzone and knocks it out is it a TD.

I say yes!

Hamilton would have had to recover the fumble in-bounds for a TD ti be awarded. That is clear.

Fleming touched it in bounds and knocked it out of bounds,is that enough in the end zone?

Not for a touchdown.

Just like the disputed Holmes fumble that Winnepeg's Simpson touched in the field of play as the ball went out of bounds .

Winnipeg was awarded the ball.

Difference in the rule book is this is in the end zone and it's the kicker recovering his own kick.