world cup - post round discussion

figured I would try starting a new thread that is not about predictions or betting.

for me, there is mixed blessing.

on the plus side, all 5 of my top teams made it

on the down side, 4 of them have to play each other right away

on the plus side, I am gauranteed 2 of them in the next round.

Here is what I am cheering for in each game, most important game bolded

-Argentina to win, but I be happy with mexico
-Urugruay to win, but I dont really care
-Ghana to win, just to get rid of USA
-England and Germany to have a bench clearing brawling in which all the top players get red carded.
-Netherlands to lose
-Paraguay to win, but I dont really care
-Brazil to win
-Portugalspain, either one is good, no injuries, no red cards.

Good stuff FYB on which I'll comment separately in a new prediction thread for those who want to participate in that given you did not want this thread to be about picks. :thup:

And also great '70s and others tales from your days of mayhem too on other threads. :slight_smile:

  • I'm rooting for Mexico (as a concacaf country) but I think Argentina will win this one. The talent gap is too much.
  • I want South Korea here so the US' path to quarterfinal gets a bit easier. They will beat Uruguay's talent with the grit/hard work they're known to apply in every big soccer game.
  • Rooting for USA (concacaf country + this team doing well never hurts MLS' chance of getting more popular) and think they'll win too
  • I want the cocky English to lose this one and lose they will.
  • I love how the dutch fans always paint the stadium orange. I'd like them to go far. Against Slovaks they have a good shot.
  • From the last game, Japan seems to have mastered the art of free kicks. I expect at least one more of those beauties against Paraguay. They'll upset Paraguay here buy shutting them out.
  • Brazil got this.
  • No preference overall in the Spain-Portugal game. It could go either way. How Spain is still without a title is beyond me. They're due for one.. maybe this year?
[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/world-cup-still-lacking-that-samba-sizzle-we-crave/article1619012/]http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/s ... le1619012/[/url]

Looks like a solid and brief summary in today’s Globe & Mail on the tournament so far …as far as my cheers and jeers for sake of advancing in the tournament I have the following teams of interest:

Cheers

USA
Germany
Brazil
Japan

Jeers

South Korea
Mexico
England
Portugal

Why do you have Holland to lose?? My neighbors are Slovac and we have a friendly bet on the game.I hope the Netherlands face Portugal (there is a large portugees(sp) community here in Hamilton very vocal :roll: The Dutch to win the W.C. :cowboy:

Some comments here on Uruguay-South Korea at the half and on USA-Ghana later.

South Korea come out playing a 4-4-1-1 (for you new to soccer and curious, that is counting where players line up at the start from the rear going up the field and not counting the goalkeeper), slightly different from a 4-4-2 as they have played all tournament, against a versatile Uruguay team now in a 4-2-3-1 after having changed it up throughout the tournament as few teams can do and succeed.

Matching up against such a common formation as a 4-2-3-1 with a 4-4-2 or something close in my opinion is very tough as the South Koreans saw against Argentina and as I have seen with other teams not just in this tournament.

All the same the side who dicatates formation changes from the norm for the opponent has an additional advantage from the start before the whistle is blown, but I don't think such was the reason for Argentina's goal via a header by a negligently unmarked striker from a cross early in the match.

For you all relatively new to soccer who are gridiron football fans as well, in American football terms this is akin to an underdog team playing a favourite by switching between games to a 3-4 defence from a 4-3 or from a ball control offence to a spread set or vice versa. Sure the players may have practised in such formations, but far more than likely they are not up to game speed on it and by default at a slight disadvantage at the very least in most cases based on that modification alone.

Adjustments at the half for South Korea back to a 4-4-2 with a substitution with another forward playing further up?

I point this out for this early game because the USA play a 4-4-2 and that is like certain other teams like England the ONLY formation they play well and consistently. Ghana all the same without any goals from other than penalty kicks in this tournament play a 4-2-3-1 consistently and well. It's far easier IMHO for any team to go back to a 4-4-2 classic English formation from another one than to go the other way.

IMHO this means the USA must be able to score early against their weak keeper or risk conceding yet another early goal due perhaps to lack of familiarity against such a formation if not some other reason as we shall see should the fast Ghana team manage up front against a somewhat weak half of the USA defence with Bocanegra and Bornstein appearing to be in to the left.

I am LESS optimistic if the now apparently way overrated central defender Onyewu plays, as only in the match against Algeria without him did we not concede a goal.

Also should the USA come out in anything but a 4-4-2, as I would see as unlikely, I will be far more pessimistic as well. Other names to instill pessimism IMHO for Team USA are Clark, Torres, and Bornstein.

Typing whilst in my role today as desk chair coach here at "work" all alone, one way that the USA might mitigate the 4-2-3-1 is by having Dempsey and a central midfielder (the versatile forwards playing midfield Edu or Buddle or TBD) cheat up more on the attacks as they have the left fullback playing behind them cheating up to the midfield more.

Ricardo Clark again in the midfield. :roll: There's the root cause for Ghana's goal true to my act as armchair coach before the match in my comments below followed by my many an expletive before the match once I saw Clark in the lineup, before he touched the ball, and when he played that ball.

Once that rightful substitution by Edu was made 15 minutes too late "RUN! GET OFF THE FIELD YOU BUM! (CENSORED)" followed. I am sure you Canadian hockey funs can understand the passion when one of your own disappoints so woefully.

Findley worthless again in the front as a finisher.

Only Bradley, Donovan, DeMerit, Cherundolo, Dempsey, and Edu are playing as if they have a fire burning within. You can't beat even marginal competition with only about half a side at most levels of play let alone the World Cup. :frowning:

Onto the second half after the coach Bradley no doubt has lit into them but all the same screwed up woefully the starting lineup.

I'll blame the coach Bradley more than anyone for the USA loss. He chose a woeful starting lineup that included Clark and Findlay with Clark not belonging on the team at all and Findlay coming up well short of impressive showings in tune-ups at this next notch up at the top global level of play.

Brian Ching in retrospect would have been a far better choice than Findlay, and the lineup for the USA for the SECOND halves in all of the games in which Team USA had to come from behind was right.

Bob Bradley's only a bit more than half a coach when one with all the lights on upstairs for the entire game is needed sorely.

as posted in another thread, find the answer below

Actually, my first interest in international soccer started in Pele's heyday, and so I became a PeleBrazil fan. Then I started playing soccer with a spanishmexican team. So, since I was already cheering 3 such teams, i just decided to add argentina and portugal. Actually, back in the 60's I played with some pretty good Portugeuse(sp?) and they were really nice people as well.

I cheer against england because I dont like their history of interferring with other countries such as africa, india, china, etc, as well as the mess they left us with re quebec. Then there is their whole involvement with enslaving other races.

I cheer against the Dutch because of apartheid and their involvement in slavery as well. Then there is the fact, as told to me, that many Dutch collaberated with the Nazi's and some even resorted to poisening Canadian soldiers.

I cheer against the USA because they cant refrain from sticking their noses in every other countries business. CIA should be disbanded. Between FBI and SECRET SERVICE, not to mention homeland security, CIA is just not needed for the security of USA

I cheer against Germany because I just cant get over their actions during 1900's

I cheer against France because of Quebec, and simply because I dont like france.

US has a pretty good national team that is improving all the time but I'm guessing the coaching is what holding them back (the crop of coaches not improving at the same rate). Maybe someday when the current generation of players retire and take up coaching jobs everywhere some great coaches will emerge from them who will be able to use the talent on field wisely and efficiently.

It's now the worst officiated World Cup ever even with the matter of 1966 being settled for good 44 years later.

Germany over England 4-2 I will say forever because one referee blind as a bat does not make millions who could see even in real time that it was a goal wrong. Even referees at an amateur level get that call right when it is just not even close.

Worse is that like other at least two offside calls missed leading to goals in the tournament that were not even close either, Messi scored on one when even many of the Argentinian players knew at an instant but then of course joined in the fun thanks to a blind Italian linesman who no doubt will hear quite the rightful wrath from my other countrymen when he returns as well.

And then just as bad and most numerous are all the offside calls made as if we are operating under the old rules where even with the second-to-last defender is offside. :roll: Is it any wonder even with the missed offside calls and piece of crap Jabulani that the number of goals per game in the first round is at an all-time low?

Enough is enough I am losing interest in the World Cup now with the whole sport going backwards.

FIFA sure are operating as if they are trying hard to run otherwise great match-ups as we had today.

It will be interesting to see all the smoke from the shots fired around the world rightfully at FIFA for the next 18 hours and watch FIFA try to tap dance around its obvious not only incompetence but dereliction of duty as global organising body of football.

I'll bet anything several national federations buck FIFA and just go forward with the video technology on their own.

All goals, fouls called in the penalty box against either team, and offside calls ought be subject to video review by the 4th official.

Also something has to be figured out to eliminate shirt grabbing or pulling, distinguished easily from a mere push, from the game.

You cannot accidentally grab another man by the shirt practically speaking, and I would never give any dude benefit of doubt in that regard for sure on or off the pitch. :lol:

LOL Agreed. I usually give the refs benefit of the doubt if it's a close call they got wrong but that goal England scored was at least a yard in. And in the goal against Argentina Messi was like 3 yards off. If there was a video replay I think they would've needed to rewind it only once for both of those and give signal to the ref within 15 seconds, about 1/5th the time it took the ref to discuss it with the linesman and/or argue with the players.

I'll bet anything several national federations buck FIFA and just go forward with the video technology on their own.

All goals, fouls called in the penalty box against either team, and offside calls ought be subject to video review by the 4th official.


Someday I'd like to see MLS lead the way with this. They have to convince FIFA that with this technology the game will have better integrity and more North Americans are likely to watch soccer as a result which means even more money for FIFA (they can't say no to money lol they're already getting like $425 mil from the US and probably drooling for more).
Someday I'd like to see MLS lead the way with this. They have to convince FIFA that with this technology the game will have better integrity and more North Americans are likely to watch soccer as a result which means even more money for FIFA (they can't say no to money lol they're already getting like $425 mil from the US and probably drooling for more).
I can't agree more and let's do it because no doubt the MLS and MLS fan base, growing more in a select number of cities, won't question it and deliberate it very long as would I think all the European federations not to say they won't move on with the plan as well.

The best thing the world could do is give a unified NUMBER ONE sign to FIFA with a collective long finger as they just make these improvements without FIFA involved at all. And at this point there is absolutely nothing Blatter could do to help the sport and down with him too I say. See how fast FIFA move all of a sudden then instead of mulling around like sometimes the Vatican.

Geez FIFA even had to have the Uruguayan referees in the England match hurried out of the stadium encircled with armed guards. As if that in itself is not that much more incriminating?

Even German legend Juergen Klinsmann on the ESPN broadcast , which hit the US and Australia at the very least, handled the matter well with practical comments for such overdue reforms. His English is better than that of most Americans I might add and even has some California accent too after his having lived in the US 12 years.

Note the press conference after the match did not go over very well at all, and mind you this article is from a British source:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE65P2MJ20100626

No way do I ever feel sorry for the English on the whole, with Germany the better team anyway winning 4-2, and I don't care for their relatively overrated and always loudmouthed FA, but today like millions I do very much feel sorry for the game, its players, and its coaches. :frowning:

yet, isnt it the same old story. Human reffing, in any sport, in any league, is always imperfect. Whatever is going on at the time is considered to have the worst reffing by its fans.

cfl refs are the worst
no nhl refs are the worst
no olympic refs are the worst
no nfl refs are the worst
no nba refs are the worst
no world soccer refs are the worst, etc etc.

Looks like the USSF/MLS is already offering to be the guinea pig.

JOHANNESBURG -- The head of the U.S. Soccer Federation is willing to have Major League Soccer experiment with changes that would reduce errors by on-field officials.

"We'd be happy to do some trial cases, not rules of the game or something like that, but with an additional referee or technology," USSF president Sunil Gulati said Monday.

FIFA president Sepp Blatter opposes the use of technology, saying soccer needs to retain a human element.

Gulati said a FIFA executive committee member, whom he didn't identify, gave his own personal views about using technology.

"He was outlining a system that he had in his own mind thought of which was very similar to the NFL system, with the obvious difference of continuous action. But a challenge system, if the challenge is upheld, then you retain," Gulati said. "I don't think there's any doubt that FIFA will look at what's happened here, whether it's additional referees or some limited form of goal-line technology which they've looked at. They'll look at some things."

Gulati said he received an e-mail from someone about the Frank Lampard shot in England's game against Germany that replays showed clearly went over the goal line yet wasn't counted.

"A billion people know that it was a goal -- instantly. One or three didn't. Or two, I guess, the linesmen," Gulati quoted the e-mail as saying. "Referees haven't gotten worse; technology has gotten a lot better."

Not having the time on the stadium clock is another contentious issue.

"A billion people are watching the game, and the only one in the world that knows when the game is going to end is the one with the watch on his hand, so people ask about that," he said. "They're not immune to change, it just takes longer."

[url=http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/story/_/id/5336733/ce/us/us-federation-open-added-ref-technology?cc=5901&ver=us]http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/ ... 901&ver=us[/url]

But if ol' MattXG were still around, I'm sure he'd tell us that the UFL refs are GREAT !!!!

You should re examin your history book!!

Given that for the most part the winners write the history books, all should be researched with some grain of salt because you hardly ever see all sides of the tale reported.

Definitely I can vouch that's the case down here in the educational system from grade school through college regarding US history from about 1760 in the last of the colonial days all the way through post-9/11. Every country does this through their "educational" system to some degree too.

Of course we have this thing called the internet now with which we need no teacher or bureaucrat to tell us what to think instead of teach us how to think for ourselves. :thup: :slight_smile:

That's enough to bother many a so-called "elected" leader right there for sure.

I agree The U.S.A , Canada, England , and the Netherlands should stop interfering in other countries affairs!!!,ALL foreign aid should be discontinued until all of our national Dept's are payed in full!!!!
Trade with China(slave labor camp) should be cut to 75 % of the current level of imports!!!
As for Germany and Japan Normal relations were re-established 50 years ago, forgive and but don't forget!!!
I assume you have never heard of the Spanish Inquisition or the genocide of south American and west Indian Natives by their Latin Masters??? My History book states that slavery in Europe originated in Latin countries.The importation of African,s to the Americas occured because the Latins exterminated all the Natives, and the first country to assure religious freedoms was Holland.(the puritans who later landed on plymouth rock)
All Nazi collaborators in the Netherlands were dealt with!! Accept of course the ones who escaped and found refuge in Latin(south) America The puppet regiem in Holland in the early 1940's was illegitimate!! Thats why they wear ORANGE :thup: V.O..=Victory Orange!!!

Portugal lost to Spain. James st very quite in Hamilton tonight.