Winnipeg Stadium 'Hard' reality from feds' BS!!!!!

CFL Talk
#1

This is writen by a tree hugger in Winnipeg.

[url=http://www.winnipegsun.com/News/Columnists/Brodbeck_Tom/2007/09/15/4498096-sun.html]http://www.winnipegsun.com/News/Columni ... 6-sun.html[/url]

By TOM BRODBECK

Winnipeg businessman David Asper pitched his idea of building a new, privately-owned football stadium -- largely with tax dollars -- to federal Treasury Board President Vic Toews on Wednesday, Sun Media has learned.

But Asper -- who wants taxpayers to contribute $80 million to a proposed $120-million stadium for the Winnipeg Blue Bombers -- got a cool response from Toews.

Toews told Asper during the meeting in Winnipeg that he would review Asper's request for federal dollars "as a courtesy," but at this point he's not even considering funding the proposed building.

Thank goodness.

"We've made absolutely no commitment to supporting it," Toews told Sun Media. "It would be a stretch to say we're even considering funding it."

OWNERSHIP FOR FREE

Asper is seeking $40 million each from the federal and provincial governments, which would cover two-thirds of the cost of a facility Asper would own outright.

As part of the deal, Asper wants ownership of the Bombers for free and the right to develop commercial property around the existing Canad Inns Stadium, which we as taxpayers own.

Did you want me to polish your shoes too, Mr. Asper?

Premier Gary Doer has expressed an interest in funding Asper's dream stadium and the province is reviewing details of the funding arrangement.

No big surprise there. Doer's never seen a corporate welfare deal he didn't like.

Unfortunately for Asper, the federal government hasn't been quite as loose with the purse strings for this stadium proposal.

Toews said his government is willing to take a look at the proposal but insists the federal review should not be construed as showing interest in the project.

"All we're doing, as a courtesy to a very prominent Manitoba businessperson, is taking a look at a proposal he's presenting," said Toews. "We see all kinds of proposals, but that does not in any way assume any type of tacit or other support for the proposal."

Toews says using tax dollars to build privately-owned stadiums for professional sports teams does not fit into the federal government's plan to upgrade Canada's "hard infrastructure," like fixing crumbling bridges and roads and upgrading sewer and water systems.

No kidding. And can you blame the feds?

"We have people who don't have basic infrastructure in their communities, and so we have to be very careful with the money that we as a federal government have," said Toews.

For example, there are now 50 boil-water orders in Manitoba, said Toews. And much of Manitoba's infrastructure, including bridges and roads, are aging and need to be refurbished or replaced, he said.

"As a federal government, where we're sharing the burdens of these financial demands, we have to make sure we have our priorities right and that they're in keeping with what Manitobans want," said Toews.

Asked if a privately-owned football stadium falls within those priorities, he said it's "not what I would call hard infrastructure, and my priority has been to emphasize hard infrastructure."

Amen.

That's not to say the federal government isn't interested in making financial contributions to publicly-owned sporting facilities like those attached to universities and colleges, said Toews.

But funding privately-owned ones for professional sports teams is a different story.

NOT RULED OUT

"As far as I know, our government has not committed to any funding of privately-owned sports facilities primarily utilized by professional sports teams," said Toews.

Nor should they.

Toews has not ruled out making a contribution to Asper's stadium.

He says federal officials will review the plan and he'll come to a firm conclusion at a later date.

But at this point, it looks like Asper may have to go back to the drawing board -- and maybe dig a little deeper into his OWN pocket.

#2

I do not beleave that his article is accurate.
In my oppinion it is your typical tree hugging propaganda.

I say we should all email him at tbrodbeck@wpgsun.com and tell him what we think of his article.

True the feds may or may not support the new stadium, but that is not the case.
The problem that I have here with this writer is Winnipeg is a shit hole that is outdated as a whole.

"Toews says using tax dollars to build privately-owned stadiums..."

SINCE WHEN IS ASPER GOING TO OWN THE STADIUM!!! The plan calls for the City of Winnipeg to own the stadium.

Winnipeg is the red light traffic capital of Canada.
The Murder capital of Canada.
The welfare capital of Canada.
The child proverty capital of Canada.
The gang capital of Canada.

And to show you exactly how cheap Winnipegers are, WE ARE THE DOLLAR STORE CAPITAL OF CANADA.

When something good is proposed in Winnipeg, its tree hugging morons like this that chase good ideas away.

Here the Asper family for many years have been trying to make Winnipeg a better place, and its ungratful people like Brodbeck who has nothing better to do but put down a great guy like Mr Asper.

The Aspers have dump Multi Millions into many charitible projects all over Winnipeg including the Asper Centre and its the Aspers who are dumping millions into the human rights museum.

The Asper stadium plan calls for the City of Winnipeg to own the stadium and will return all government funding back to the government in approx. 5 years.

So next time your in Winnipeg driving to work sitting at a red light in one lane, stop and go,
bumper to bumper traffic, taking 40 minutes just to drive 5 Kilometres, think about how much better Winnipeg would be if we didn't have guys like Tom Brodbeck around.

#3

Typical poorly researched short-sightedness. No consideration whatsoever is given to what the long-term benefits of such deal might be. No, it's all about today; tomorrow is somebody elses' problem.

#4

These are the same type of short sighted thinking that prevails and what happened in Halifax during the Commonwealth fiasco.
Tree huggers indeed.

#5

I posted this in the Extra Point forum on Bluebombers.com

Did you read the Tom Brodbeck article in the Sun the other day? Just when I thought he couldn't write anything more ill informed and utterly stupid, he never ceases to find a new level of idiocy. Now I know Tom Brodbeck has never been one to be slowed down by doing "research" or presenting "the facts", but please do us all a favour and move to Toronto.

http://www.winnipegsun.com/News/Columni ... 6-sun.html

First of all, I was under the impression that after the stadium was completed, the city would own the stadium and Asper's Bombers would be playing in it. Asper would own the retail development on the stadium site but not the stadium itself.

Second of all, according to the report, both levels of government would get all their invested money back in the form of construction taxes collected during the building of the stadium, and the taxes generated by it's operation.

So basically the province and the federal government loan Asper $80 for five years and then get it all back and then some. The city gives Asper the land for $1 and in return they get a $120million dollar stadium, and new economic development in Winnipeg. And we loan Asper the Bombers and he will give us a winning team.

Seems like a no brainer to me. But I don't think anyone has ever accused Tom Brodbeck of having a brain. If you feel like emailing him: tbrodbeck@wpgsun.com

#6

Hey it’s the Canadian media.
All they do is rag on Canadians and twist facts to make a story… Believe me, I know!

#7

...Tom Brodbeck....not your typical Pegger' (thankfully) ...terms like ill-informed...neandrethal in thinking...and hardly worth commenting on...come to mind... but i'll bite...NOTE to Tom....Aspers plan for a new stadium will succeed with no thanks to bozos like you.....i think you should actually move to another centre...because you sure don't belong in Winnipeg...possibly a job waiting for you in Halifax, to head a sports sub committee...i;m sure they'd love your input :thdn:

#8

What do you expect from the Winnipeg Sun. The news is so dumbed down it's not even news anymore. It doesn't even meet the requirements to be considered an editorial. It's just a bunch of high school drop outs that rant and rave about anything that is contrary to their narrow minded uneducated foolishness. Idiots.

#9

Thanks guys, I am glad that you are with me on this one.
Here is how I look at it.
The city of Winnipeg and province of Manitoba admited that all their photo radar and speed traps are set up to generate revenue and not promote safety.
They generate multi millions of dollars tricking people into speeding so that they can give ordinary people including senior citizens 170-200$ speeding tickets.
In addition the Casinos in Manitoba generate A PROFIT of about 300 million dollars a year.
On top of that we have a good tax base.
Now where does all this money go to?
Do we have a freeway? NOPE!
Do we have any express ways? NOPE!
Do we have a downtown bi-pass? NOPE!
Do we have rappid tranit? NOPE!
Do we have a subway or train system? NOPE!
What we do have is a out dated traffic system where your average speed per hour is 13.5 km/hour. Yes I am serious 13.5 km an hour.
So my question to Tom Brodbent is where the heck is this money going to? And where is the so called new infrastructure that they are talking about?
What BS!
Winnipeg has a bad rep already, and its people like Tom that do nothing for the city.
Ok how about this. Instead of Asper fixing up the city, lets get Tom Brodbeck to put his money where his mouth is.
How about we give Tom Brodbeck some tools and lets see if Tom will fix up all the boarded up buildings in Downtown Winnipeg and turn them into something good.
Or better yet, lets see if Tom will match all the charity work that the Aspers have done for the city.
Come on Tom, put your work where your mouth is!

#10

Before you guys all freak out, here is some extra info. 1. The stadium would be leased long-term for virtually nothing to the Bombers which Asper would own. Thus low lease payments and NO taxes on the stadium land.

  1. Asper will be given the rights to all the revenue from a 2 story 230,000 sq ft retail space on the old Winnipeg Stadium site that he will develop. (could generate roughly 2.3 to 4 million dollars a year in revenue).

  2. Asper would own the Bombers.

Now, I know that $40m doesn't sound like much to you guys, but it would be an incredible sweetheart deal to the Aspers. Put in $60m dollars to get some phenomenal prime real estate, ownership of the Bombers and a sweet lease as the primary tenant in the facility.

And by the way, anyone who thinks Broadbeck is a tree hugger has never read the Winnipeg Sun.
Now, go tell the people who don't have enough money for police, the people who have boil water advisories, the people whose bridge is impassable that a new stadium is more worthy of their money.

Personally, I'd like to see it happen, but it is nice to see a government that is willing to say "maybe, but we'll look at it. I can guarantee if it makes sense fiscally to the Conservatives, they will come through with the money. And then you bloody well better make sure you and your friends and anyone you know goes out and votes for them as a thank you.

#11

Good points BigU but you missed what I said.
You have to keep in mind the the blue bombers are already playing there for next to nothing. So what will change just because Asper owns them?
I asked where is the 300 million dollars of the gambling money going to and what is it used for? I also ask what the Multi Millions of dollars of photo radar/speed trap revenue is used for?

The casino money alone is enough to buy us a new NHL team and arena every year.
You see, we have taxes that are supposed to pay for bridges, infrastructer, boilers, ect and we pay an arm and a leg in taxes.

We already have money for those things and then some. Its not a matter of who much money we have, its a matter of how well its spend and how balanced our budget is.
And yes the Stadium will easilly generate tax dollars in great quantities.
Construction taxes, consession taxes, entertainment taxes (another stupid winnipeg tax), employment income taxes, parking taxes, bussiness taxes, land taxes, and spin off taxes.

#12

Economy grows not on how much money we have, but on how much money is circulated.
$40 million leaves the Government, circles around and returns back to the government and in the process, things get build, people get paid, and work gets done.
That is a fact of how the economy works.
And yes, I do know Tom Brodbeck and he is a tree hugger. He may have a attitude, but he is a tree hugger and this article proves it.

#13

How is applauding the feds for studying something before giving any money to one of the richest families in Canada being a tree hugger?

Also, have you done the money crunching (or seen the numbers) showing the economic spinoffs that would be created from doing this deal rather than the other infrastructure work that could be done with it?

#14

BTW, the casino money and redlight camera cash belong the the province and the city. As I said, I like the deal but maybe the province and city should come up with the additional 40 mil between the two of them.

On another note, I don't want to see the feds put in a position where they have to come up with 40mil for every stadium proposal that hits their desk because you know that others in Canada will be whining to see that happen and point to Winnipeg. Let them do their due diligence and (hopefully) provide the numbers to back up the payback from loaning the 40mil. That would be the wise thing.

#15

Tom Brodbecks article is way off.
For starters I will say again that his article states that Asper will OWN THE STADIUM.
That is dead wrong as it will be owned by the city.
The $40 million dollars from the feds will not go to Asper, it will go to a stadium that will be own by Winnipeg.
City, province or Federal I still dont know where the money goes from the speed traps or casinos.

But the bottom line is that Asper is giving 65 million dollars to this project of his own money and the city gets to keep the stadium.
Not Asper.

I do know how the ecomony works.
Do you know why we get unemployment checks and welfare checks?
It has nothing to do with keeping us happy.
The real reason why we have unemployment and welfare checks is so that money keeps getting circulated and it returns back to the government 10 fold.

One dollar exchanging hands 10 times is 10 dollars worth of sales. That is economic fact.
Therefor, that one dollar is taxed 10 times.
That is why I know for a fact that the money the feds invest into a stadium that the city will own will return their investment in 5 years and then creat revenue for years to come afterwards.
WE always have money for roads and parks.

#16

And on your last point, Aspers plan is to have the money returned to the government once again.
Let me ask you now? Who is going to pay for the maintenance and the rebuilding of the current Canada Inns stadium if this proposal gets thrown out the window?
Just for a temporary upgrade to our current stadium is going to be $25 million dollars.
And remember thats temporary.

#17

Minority government politicians are good at reading polls.

Said polls tell them that the public at large wants money for schools, hospitals, and roads more then it wants money for a football stadium.

If you people are done with your insane tree hugger hatred (since when are Conservatives tree huggers anyway?), I'd like to welcome you back to political reality. Sports stadiums are not a high priority for tax dollars in the public view. Until you change that, any politician who refuses to support such a deal is simply doing their job.

#18

The Feds kicked in $27 million for Toronto's soccer stadium, but that was last year, and that was Toronto. With Wpg being in the West, they will probably just get the "trudeau" salute" from the federal politicians. The feds are only fixing sewers and roads at this time and it would be politically uncorrect to spend their excess billions on anything else...unless it was it Quebec :frowning:

#19

Tax money in a form of a loan garauntee is fine but to out right pay for a stadium that does nothing for the rest of the country is pathetic. Asper has the money and he should fund it fully.

#20

...how about the money the feds are dumping into B.C. FOR THE WINTER OLYMPICS....for plush highways for all the rich skiing families...don't give me that crap about fed. spending....and don't tell me its apples and oranges ..cuz it all comes from the same pockets....yours and my tax dollars....IF you can give the money away for a two week party on the coast....you sure and hell better find some for Manitoba...or you can be sure MANITOBANS will no where to park their vote.... :wink: