,that’s what I said when someone suggested we pursue Willy :lol: :lol:
Willy lost ground in Riderville when he failed many times to get first downs with a yard to go, plus 1 yard rushes for td’s, I like Sunseri better is all! thought he played better in last game of the season!! Willy has improved but he’s not a Ray or Durant IMO!
…There you go Wolverine and that’s coming from a rider fan…I DO NOT have a hate on for Willy but c’mon…what the hell has he really done in this league and quit trying to sell me a bunch of baloney…You guys (snap and wolverine) sound like his agent…I’d luv it if he came in here (has to catch the eye of Bomber management first) and proved to me he has better upside than Burris (even at his age) for one…He’s being pumped because he’s an fa… AND If Willy is all that’s out there besides Henry and Collaros, I’ll take a pass on Willy… 
LOL. Willy has had a couple of starts. In this last season he started the last regular season game and split the game with Sunseri. Riders lost that meaningless game to the Esks on a late Edmonton score. He mopped up the Labour Day game 2012 where they clobbered us 52-0, the helped the Riders beat us in the Banjo bowl 2012 after Durant went down early, lost the next week to MTL, then played most of another game later in 2012 after Durant got hurt again leading the Riders to a win over the Cats. But really, who cares about his won-loss record at this point. The sample size is too small to make any inference as to whether he can be a winner as a starting QB. Statistically, looking at what he has done, again in a limited sample size, parallels what other young QBs have done that have gone on to have success as opposed to say, a guy like Joey Elliott, who’s early numbers had worse completion percentages, passer ratings, and TD:TO ratio. So I like those stats and think they are promising, and if stats are for losers, then I’m a loser (sure feels like it being a Wpg Blue Bomber/MN Viking/Wpg Jets fan, man it’s been a rough year).
As for the Riders forum having Sunseri quite a bit ahead of Willy? Who the hell cares what the Rider forum thinks? The Rider coaches had Willy ranked #2 on their depth chart all season long. That’s who’s evaluation counts. If Durant had gone down in the playoffs, it would’ve been Willy under centre, not Sunseri so obviously the Rider coaching staff doesn’t agree with that forum and that coaching staff just led their team to a Grey Cup championship no relying on the forums opinion. Sunseri is the third stringer at the moment until Willy moves on in FA or, if Willy resigns in Riderville, he takes the #2 job from Willy during camp. Before the season started this forum had the Bombers a 10 win team and headed to the playoffs with Chad Simpson rushing for 2000 yards. I remember back in training camp some people were talking about Chase Clement having a good arm and the few practices I went to his deep ball had 0 zip, often failed to be anywhere near their intended target, and there was quite a drop off in the ball on sideline throws once it hit the hashmarks. Some had Goltz as our saviour. I can appreciate the Riders fans, and to that end all the fan boys and girls for each of the other teams teams, have and are entitled to their opinions, but it doesn’t mean their opinions are necessarily reality. LOL, “the Rider forum says” … careful Papazoola, you’re starting to sound like HFxTc using “facts” from dubious sources 
...I'll tell you why the fans in riderville count...They go to practices and actually watch first hand what their qb.s are doing... Some of them are more informed than a few of their guys behind the bench..And I hope you're not suggesting that fans aren't knowledgeable and are blind..Seems to me they would have a pretty good grasp of how and what their guys are doing...But if you feel a handful of stats gets Willy a ticket to the Bombers tc in June ..great...He has a lot to prove in my estimation...AND please don't compare Willy to Collaros orrrr Reilly......He hasn't done anything to get him that kind of recognition 
...AND I think you better be careful there wolverine....people will be wondering if you're looking to head up the Willy fan club and wanting a per diem... :lol: :lol:
Again, that’s just a fans opinion and stated as such, but the depth chart all season long, including the Grey Cup, said Durant, Willy, Sunseri. He may have lost ground but he didn’t lose his job to Sunseri, he remains the #2 QB on the current Grey Cup Champions. The only guy Sunseri has beaten out of a job, according to the Riders depth charts since training camp, was Levi Brown, the 4th stringer on our roster, and that had as much to do with Brown sucking on the field as it did Sunseri playing well.
Since Glenn was dumped by Mike Kelly in 2009, the list of QBs that have taken snaps here - Stefan LeFors, Bryan Randell, Richie Williams, Ricky Santos, Casey Bramlet, Michael Bishop, Buck, Jyles, Brink, Elliott, Goltz, Max Hall, Boltus. Did I miss anyone? 13 QBs in 5 seasons. Burris has what, another year or two in the tank? I have no idea if Willy, or even Collaros for that matter, will solve the revolving door so don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying we absolutely have to sign him. But we do need to stop the revolving door, on that I’m sure we can agree. Signing someone who’ll be 39 to start next year to lead our franchise should be the last plan of action, not the first. Collaros is my favourite candidate in that respect. Making Burris our starter IMO as our fallback plan is tantamount to spinning our tires in wet mud for the next year or two until his legs go dead and his arm goes limp, and in the interim we still need a plan of action for when that experiment is over. And frankly, Austin I think knows something about QBs and the fact he’s been visibly unhappy with Burris’ decision making on many, many occasions this season should be a red flag that maybe Burris’ decline is in progress already.
I don’t do individual fan clubs and I don’t need a per diem. I just want a winning football program, and a consistent one at that. Is that too much to ask? What I do know is we have 4 QBs on our roster and Willy is an immediate upgrade over at least three of them - Goltz, Boltus, and Levi Brown. The only way to make a bad team better is to add talent on the roster that’s better then what’s already here. Heck, half the third stringers around the league would be an upgrade. I find Willy appealing in that he’s still young and has CFL game experience and shown well, so from that consideration I’d throw him in the mix and see what he’s got. We just fired a GM who never wanted to bring in guys with experience to see if they could make our team better. Now’s not the time to repeat his mistakes. It costs us very little to take a look and if he’s not the guy I’ll be happy to drop him off at YWG to send him out of town.
Very well said, Wolverine. Unfortunately, the message will likely fall upon deaf ears, yet again.
.......You missed the great Spergon Wynn...although that might not fall in the 5 yr period you outlined...We have had a host of failures in the past and quite frankly I'm sick and tired of going down that road...Let's talk about experience behind centre and the guy that can bring it and is a physical presence...He can still throw the ball on a rope, still has wheels and most of all has the savvy required...That fa (at present) is Henry Burris...You can go on and on about 'potential'...Willy among them but we've been down that futile road so many times before, it's turning the fans off...I would like to see a competent vet. at qb. , instead of a 'never was and maybe never will be'..We need a proven qb. not some guy you hope and think, will be.....I'd like to see him here for the next couple of years, and get whoever else we bring in some valuable insight into the quarterbacking position on this club...Settle him in..We cannot have another guy come in here and fall flat on his face...The fan base won't tolerate it...I hope we are fortunate enough to land Burris and Collaros and give this club the stability it needs for the foreseeable future...Maybe Henry isn't the future but he sure has hell would give us a short term solution UNTIL we get back to some semblance of decency on this team...
I can understand Winnipeg's woes, you need a starting QB, who is the question! There is some young talent out there that right now, will not be the starting QB with there respective clubs. So to go to the Bombers and a chance to be the starter is a good incentive. But the coaching staff have to find that guy and once placed, need to let them develop. These young QB's are gonna make mistakes, have bad games, but that is how they learn. I was never a big Durant fan, because he was so hot and cold. I am glad they let him develop into the QB he now is. So as a fan we don't always see what the coaches see. I hope Winnipeg can find there starter, as the league in general will benefit from strong clubs. Close games are always good and as a Rider fan, we have been there so many times at the bottom, and it's not fun to watch as a fan. It may take a few years to see your club rolling again, but it will happen!!
How will a rookie starter react to losing game after game while trying to learn ? How will the fans react ? Is there enough patience ? How many more times can fans go through new saviour QBs only to be disappointed ? With Henry you get instant respectability and I think that's what we need. It makes the losing learning curve easier to take. When Willy is losing his 7th start in a row, will the fans accept it or walk away tired of the same old thing ? Enough gambling. Let's win a few !
…Exactly Dan… Look at the guys wolverine has listed…Too many times we’ve been sold a bill of goods with regard to these guys with ‘potential’…Collaros is an exception…I’ve seen this guy have very strong performances and would luv to get him signed here…HOWEVER…I don’t trust that scenario entirely…He’s young and could be put in a situation where he will have to take a monumental weight on his shoulders for the first while…Would he/could he take the load.??? Burris is solid, no matter if he is winding down his career…We don’t even know if he’ll be available, although reading and hearing stories out of Ham., some are saying he won’t be back??? IF true,this is our chance to sign him (see Rod Pederson,title 'Rod is hearing Henry won’t be back in the Ham threads)…Right now we have Max Hall and as far as I’m concerned that’s it and that ain’t great…We should see how everything shakes down in approximately another month and a half from now…I hope we don’t blow it… :roll:
I think Winnipeg will react well to a young QB under the right circumstances. We took our lumps with Elliott and people were ticked he was let go. There were quite a few fans that would’ve been patient watching him for another season or two to see if he developed and he’s a far sight below the quality of a Collaros or even Willy.
When you look at all the guys that have come through here in recent years…Take Mike Kelly’s year because he was the one who wanted Glenn gone. He burned through Lefors, Randell, Williams, Santos, Bramlet, and Bishop in one season. Why? Because he couldn’t find anyone to run his wacky offense so he tried anyone and everyone. Out goes Kelly and in comes Mack who puts his faith in Buck. We had Jyles as well in that first year who played well, he was dumped off to the Argos so that Buck could be the absolute #1 guy. In come Brink and Elliott, they spend a few years getting their feet wet. Brink has some ups and downs, but after a win Lapo comes back and benches him for Elliott. Elliott then takes us on a roller coaster of ride of ups and agonizing lows. Then BAM both are dumped so Mack and Burke could make Buck the undisputed #1 guy again with no competition. Then we yo-yo again with Buck, Goltz, and Hall.
The problem is not having a young QB, the problem as you can see is historically we have had not had any plan for QB. It’s just been a series of a couple games here and there and then on to the next guy. If we have a young QB, no matter who it is, fans will support him here IMO if it’s clear there is a plan in place to build up the QB and build around him. That means giving him the starts, let him take his lumps, and have the coaching staff to support him. The one exception to that may in fact be Collaros. He’s had some ups and downs but by and large he’s played well under Milanovich and the coaching in Toronto. The expectations for him here are/would be pretty high so if he does in fact struggle I could see some fans losing patience earlier than with someone else.
LOL papazoola. You need to turn in your bomber fan badge and just stop being a closeted Rider fan. Rod Pederson’s blog, Rider forums, good grief. As for Rod Pederson, I’ve read his stuff and found him to be the least accurate of any CFL bloggers or commentators. I’d be curious as to how many of his predictions actually come to fruition, my sense is it’s probably pretty low. Burris turned down an extension with the Cats, it was clear on TV that he and Austin weren’t the best of friends at times, Austin increasingly used Lefevour on the field as the season went along to the point of even keeping him on the field to get that semi win in OT over the Als, and Burris didn’t immediately sign a new contract with the Cats after the expansion draft. It doesn’t take any particular genius to see that Burris is probably going to see a reduced workload in Hamilton and is most likely headed to FA to see what’s out there. LOL, Pederson is hearing Burris won’t be back. That’s been discussed on TSN and their panelists and on twitter by other CFL pundits for a while now. That’s where he’s hearing it from.
If you look at the history of these guys with Joseph and Ray it is pretty easy to deduct that they will not pay a QB top money. Burris would be a great addition as part of a combo with a couple young qb's. Bombers are going to be fighting in a division where the other QB's are Lulay,Reilly and Durant. You need some experience at the position.
Burris and Collaros as a one two punch would be fine with me. Zach only got a shot because Ray went down. If Henry got hurt, we need back up. The way we're hiring now, only the OC will have experience. Burris fits the bill to a tee. Very few teams that I can remember ever had success with rookie QBs. We did with Sean Salisbury and I'm still scratching my head over that. I think we need some success to help dress up that new stadium and Henry gives us hope for a GC instantly.... For many years I've wanted Burris, thought he would be a good fit in Winnipeg. If we have a chance, grab him regardless of how many years he has left. Cripes, we don't know how many years Collaros has left either !......Remember this mantric cadence" Burris gives us the best chance to win." This time it's true. :lol:
Burris as a combo with a young QB would be ideal but I’d rather have Burris as the supporting role, or if he’s the starter then just a placeholder for one year before the young QB takes over full time. The division is tough with Lulay and Durant and the Stamps, regardless of whether Tate or BLM is their starter.
Saint Reilly I don’t see as much of a threat at the moment. Great stats but only 4 wins, two of which were over us. Stats are for losers according to papazoola so we can ignore those. And if you start giving any weight to wins against the bombers n 2013, we should get credit for a couple of extra ones too because we beat ourselves on a couple of occasions. This includes one of those two losses to the Esks and Reilly where bad coaching let a big first half lead disappear and an inexplicable decision to give the Esks the advantage in OT. I think he’s a good QB, just bad organization. The GM there has only proven himself to be a joke and not really capable of filling holes in his team to this point. I’m guessing Jones will have some input on player personnel decisions. I wonder how that mix of Hervey-Jones will work as Hervey has shown himself to be pretty outspoken and opinionated and may not like ceding control on some player moves to the HC, but then again he was pretty hands off on personnel moves most of last season. The guy did nothing but sit on his hands and act contrite after his tirade on Rottier and the Oline. Jones too is a great DC, but that doesn’t always mean success as a HC either. Will his coaching story be more like Benevides and Chamblin or more like Marshall, Reed, and Burke? I’d like to see how things shake out on the field in Edmonton before I take them seriously. The way it stands now I see the Blue and the Esks fighting it out for 4th place in the division.
....Hey wolverine lol ...it looks like you're slowly drifting into the minority as far as a seasoned qb. goes...Maybe you should turn in your Willy membership pin :lol: ...hfxtc is also bang on...IF we're going to compete in a very tough western division we need more than a raw rook....How you and snap can't see that is beyond me...Maybe you have to get around a bit more and start reading what's going on...get informed...Doesn't take a lot of effort and reading a few of the other forums might enlighten you a bit...Meanwhile I'll just staY with my bluengold badge...one I've had for more than 50 years...and I ,like you , will hope for the best for the Bombers in 2014...unless YOU are a closet plant from another team...then I'd understand:wink: :lol:
..geez wolverine...you're sure shooting low....4th tied with the esks...sure glad you're not the coach...Seems to me every team should go into the season with winning the Cup in mind...according to our new coach...I can see why all of your posts make sense now...You are actually an esks. plant... :lol: seriously ..with all the green in B.C. I'm picking them for the basement
Not shooting low, just realistic. I like Osh’s mantra of each season our goal is Grey Cup or bust. That should absolutely be the goal. But the reality is that there will be 7 teams next year that don’t get to the Grey Cup game and no team in modern history has gone from a 3 win season to Grey Cup champs in one year. The odds are long.
The Lions, Stamps, and Riders are the cream of the west right now. Do I think the bombers coming off a 3 win season and with a new QB and rookie HC are going to be in the mix with those 3 clubs this season? No I don’t. I’m not opposed to Burris as our QB. With Burris maybe we’re an 8 win team instead of a 5-6 win team with a younger QB. But then in a couple of years where does that leave us? I’d rather get someone in that can be our Calvillo or Rickey Ray and give us 10 years of service and prosperity than a one year fix and leaving us with the shakes waiting for our next temporary hit. We’ve been addicted to short term fixes for years and how many Grey Cups has it won for us? Teams that have built around a QB long term meanwhile like Ray and Calvillo have won how many? A temporary fix with a big let down at the end leaving you wanting for more considering how little Grey Cup success he has had in his career. I can’t speak for snap but I’d rather see this team break the cycle and set itself up to be a 9-12 win team and perennial challenger for the division title rather than a continuous 6-9 win team that recycles QBs every couple of years and sees our Grey Cup drought continue. In that respect I’m OK in being in the minority in my opinion.
As for being informed, forums it’s where a bunch of arm chair analysts and fan boys and girls espouse their opinions, some trying to convince you they have some insider knowledge and are “in the know”. I’ll get my information from those in the know who actually have a bead on what’s going on behind the scenes in the CFL like Madani, Naylor, Forde, Zurkowsky, and yes even Penton and Lawless. At least their info when they post it’s actually based on some reality.
As for BC…don’t misjudge the green-ness of their co-ords. They have a lot of talented football players and those co-ords will have Buono as a resource. And Benevides, having been a DC, I think his coaching style will help out Washington on the defensive side moreso than Burke did with Creehan. Biggest thing that can derail BC IMO is Lulay’s health, or lack thereof. And while on the topic of BC that organization did what I’m saying I would like the Bombers do - made a commitment to a young QB in Lulay years ago when they could’ve stuck with the status quo of Jarious Jackson, Buck, and/or Casey Printers. Sure they took some lumps including a horrible losing streak to start a season but it ended in a Grey Cup win in 2011. In the meantime Lulay has turned himself into one of the top 4 QBs in the league and gives his team a chance to win most every game he starts. Since Lulay has been the main man in BC they’ve posted 11, 13, and 11 win seasons, and 2013 could’ve been better than 11 wins had Lulay not missed multiple games due to shoulder injury. This is the blueprint I want our team to follow on its way to becoming and respectable organization that can win championships. If I’m in the minority in my opinion, so be it. But whatever the route the Bombers choose I’ll be true blue regardless.
…The perils of going with an inexperienced qb. and youngster may not be unavoidable…However ( I always like to have the however) when the chance to hire a guy like Burris comes along ,you take it…I know critics will say that it is a ‘short time fix’ but it is one this team has to have and when presented with the chance,takes it…I’m not going to rehash …rookie vs. vet. again…We all know the advantages and disadvantages…I will say however that for the health and well being of this franchise we cannot be left ‘in the woods’ with a mediocre team in 2014…The fans will start turning this club off and the gate will suffer… The payment on the debt the Bombers carry and having to pay for a new venue and staying solvent. to me, would be paramount…We can’t afford to look like a ‘rebuild’ and in fact O’Shea has said we do not need a rebuild…His rep. is on the line here, especially after his reviewing of our roster core and what he intends to add in 2014…That’s why I think you’re being a little short sighted and underestimating what will transpire in the coming season, wolverine…We’ll see who’s right or wrong in 2014…Maybe some will say I’m being overly optimistic…to those I say…It’s time for Bomber fans to be a glass half full than a glass half-empty person…There are quick turnarounds in a now 9 team league… Not an impossibility that we can make the play-offs…Guess the proof will be in the pudding as they say and the coming transactions this team will make , in the near future, will definitely be watched carefully and indicate the direction we’ll be going… All I can say is keep the bluengold faith and watch this team begin it’s resurgence in earnest in 2014…:thup:
So papazoola, say Burris becomes the man under centre like you want. Where do you project that puts the bombers? And let's assume he plays like he has the last couple of years in Hamilton and there is no trail off.
Burris was lights out in 2012, over 5000 yards passing, over 40 TDs. Amazing, right? And yet the Ticats finished 6-12 and out of the playoffs. So the addition of Burris alone doesn't make us an automatic playoff team. In 2013, the bombers finished with the fewest wins, most points and yardage allowed, our opponents averaged more than 100 yards more per game on offense than ours, had a near 70% completion percentage throwing the ball against us, the D gave up 35 passing TDs versus 13 scored by our offense, and were at or near the bottom of the league with a -27 turnover ratio. Yes, O'Shea said we don't need a rebuild but what is he going to say? Rebuild is a dirty word and could've hurt season ticket renewals. And in a way he's right, we don't need to dump everything and everybody and start from scratch. There are pieces on this team to work with. But we do need a massive overhaul to fix all the failings of this team in 2013. This is what I project:
- A new starting QB
- One new starting Olineman at the very least if Neufeld takes a starting role as expected at RT (though I could see him pushing Morley to the bench full time and playing RG with Jones staying at RT and January at LT if the ratio works out). Maybe more changes if they decide to shake things up even more. Sorensen is a pending FA, maybe he doesn't return, and Greaves certainly wouldn't be confused with an all star caliber Olineman.
- Probably two new DEs that weren't on the team in 2013 (I'm including Vega as new as he obviously wasn't part of the 2013 fiasco, and guessing Hall doesn't return and Mainor loses his spot
- Maybe a new starter at MLB depending on how things work out with Henoc
- Probably a new starter in the secondary at safety at least as I think Cauchy doesn't retain a starting job.
So 5-6 new faces in the starting lineup at least, or about 20% of the starters, and as many as 8-9 could be different plus we'll have a new kicker as well. Add to that another 5-10 new faces amongst the backups and PR replacing any players departing in FA and the couple of guys lost in the expansion draft. All told, between the active roster and the PR that could amount to 25% of the players plus being new for 2014. Add to that a mostly new coaching staff working with massively overhauled or completely new playbooks on both sides of the ball and special teams as well. What do you call that? A minor tinker?
The Winnipeg Jets are going through exactly what I expect from the bombers next year. Jets moved from a softer eastern division where they weren't a playoff team. Somehow there were expectations that all the sudden they'll be a playoff team while playing in a much tougher western conference? How's that working out? The competition for the bombers will tougher than what it was in the east and furthermore our franchise has a terrible win-loss record against west division teams in the last 5 years. The Jets have looked good at times, horrible at others, and woefully average the rest of the time. The bombers will face similar challenges and pains. I'd be more enthusiastic about a big turnaround if we were still in the east, but in the west? That's would require a heck of a lot of optimism. You certainly have more optimism theses days than you had for this team at the end of last season papazoola (for eg. [url]http://forums.cfl.ca/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=85517[/url]). You certainly weren't a glass half empty fan then, and yet the only change we've made so far from that point really is a new HC. My how the tables have turned. Look, I would love to have you be right and have myself be proven wrong. I'm just not in your happy place.
How anyone with any intelligence whatsoever could think that signing a 40 year old QB is the way to go when there are so many other options available is beyond me. Not hard to figure out how the Bombers would find themselves in this mess, they listen to people like Papa! :lol: