Windsor

I'm wondering why, after Ottawa and Halifax, Windsor seems to be left off most people's list for Canadian expansion.

(Usually you see QC or London mentioned ... yes both are larger than the Windsor metro area, but Detroit and its 4.5 million metro population is just across the border.)

I found this little blurb on the Windsor page on Wikipedia interesting:

"Windsor has been lobbying for a Canadian Football League franchise. This franchise (if awarded) would play its regular-season home games in Windsor and possibly their playoff games in Pontiac, a suburb of Detroit. Current CFL commissioner Tom Wright met with Windsor mayor Eddie Francis about possible expansion to Windsor during the run-up to Super Bowl XL, in which Windsor played a major role although the game itself was held in Detroit. Shortly thereafter, media in the Windsor Star and other local news sources criticized this as an unrealistic pipe dream."

Is there anything close to a suitable venue for the CFL in Windsor?

(I am assuming this is the biggest problem with placing a team there.)

By the way, I also conducted a poll of sorts on a Detroit Lions message board and more people than not responded that they would support an expansion CFL team in Windsor. Mind you there wasn't a huge response to the poll (22 at last count). Anyway, here's a link:

http://www.sportsline.com/mcc/messages/chrono/1396323

At last count, 45% said they would unconditionally support a CFL expansion team in Windsor with another 14% saying they would support it but only before the NFL season starts.

(I suppose some Detroit fans were extremely against this idea as I got tagged with my very first couple of zero ratings just for posting this poll...)

Windsor has been touted as a potential CFL expansion site for years now. It does have merit, for sure. Nearby Detroit is a great sports town and you've gotta wonder if it might be better to have the team based there.
I'd bet Detroit would back the CFL more than Windsorites!

I think they are building a new arena for the Spitfires there so I would imagine a CFL franchise for the city is a dead issue as a new arena will cost enough as it is.

With the tightening up of the border, and the struggles of the American auto industry, Windsor is hurting a tad right now.

the reason everyone ignores windsor is this:

after expanding to ottawa and halifax, the next best place in the east, is Quebec-city, giving the east 6 teams to the wests 5.

if windsor was in the west, everyone would be talking about windsor, cuz it would balance the divisions at 6 each.

Windsor is about 2 hrs from london, 40 minutes from chatham/kent region, could get fed $$ to build a stadium .as a start up buiseness?

A few years back during the 06 Super Bowl in Detroit we heard the Mayor of Windsor saying he wanted a CFL franchise and supposedly he spoke to then commish Tom Wright.
Still, the bottom line is no stadium.

Top Stadiums(not CFL cities):
Ottawa - Frank Clair
Quebec City - PEPS(18K)
Halifax/London - Both 9K

*Halifax Commonwealth Stadium(if games are awarded - atleast 25K possibly 50K.

What the CFL should think of doing is this:
Get two more teams in the east(two of Ottawa, Quebec and Halifax)
Most likely Ottawa and Halifax.

Then work with the feds, Quebec/Ontario Provinces, CIS and Municiple Govs to build 16K Seat Stadiums in:
London, Windsor, Waterloo, Sherbrooke and a fifth City(Oshawa, some place east of Toronto) Halifax if they don’t get the games

The goal for this is to build basicly a Minor League for the CFL, I’ve looked at alot of the numbers and Stadiums of sufficient size for the CFL(atleast 14K seats + 14 Boxes) would cost a total of 15M each.
These Stadiums are not Covered and the league Likely would need Stadiums that are:
16K+ Seats and 16 Luxury Boxes(price of 16M maybe) with good sized Concessions area, Parking for atleast 1K cars, 4 or 5 Locker rooms, Interior Room to hold events(conventions, Meetings, Socials perhaps)

This League would be a development league with a 12 game regular season, 2 game pre-season, 2 round playoffs(division then Championship) and a two division Format.

with reasonable ticket prices(average of 25$ a ticket) Teams can Raise well over 2M$(15K fans per game average)

Player Salaries will be worked out to be on a flat Rate Depending on players experience.
Base 25K a year + 3K for every year of CFL, CFL2 or NFL experience(10 games dressed needed in a league to qualify for a year)
players would recieve a two bedroom appartment shared with a teammate for the Season free, they can remain in the off-season for a discount price

Now this will help with CFL expansion as it 1.has players ready for the CFL alot faster
2.Gives 6 Cities with CFL exibition Sized Stadiums to judge CFL support
3. Gives added Revenues to the CFL (accounting for most expenses atleast 500K per team so 3M a year)

Stadium Costs(15M stadiums, 75M spent on Stadiums) would be 3M to each level, per CFL team that’s 1.875M
Those costs can be covered easily on a three year plan(625K a year)

Now while it would be best for 25K Stadiums to be built(CFL sized) it would be best to start at 16K with Luxury boxes built in and if a team is CFL ready have plans for all Stadiums to have Endzones built 5-10 years later so that it looks like it was built at the Same time and can hold the 25K.

The could always use the Silver dome..
In Windsor till a new Stadium is built
Keep the team office in Windsor and Practice at University
play games in Detroit

This way the Canadian Rules should still Apply

Well, yes, it would be nice if it were closer assuming it was the #12 team to be added (after the three more eastern teams you mentioned).

However, I think the CFL should go with the strongest location and deal with the geography (like they're dealing with now with Winnipeg in the East). It must not bother them too much as they don't even take the trouble to match Winnipeg up against Saskatchewan for the pre-season games (which seems like an obvious thing to do).

Besides, with a 6-team West (BC, Cal, Edm, Sask, Wpg, Windsor) and 6-team East (Ham, Tor, Ott, Mtl, QC, Halifax), you'd likely have 5 road games withing your division (home-and-away with each of the 5 teams) and 4 road games outside of your division (home-and-away with 2 teams, and 1 game each (home or away) against the other 4). So, the travel burden would be fairly even across the board.

I was also thinking Windsor should be considered for the 10th franchise (after Ottawa) if things (Commonwealth Games) don't work out for Halifax. Unfortunately, it appears Windsor Stadium has an even smaller capacity than the current stadium in Halifax and the Pontiac option (for the short-term) may be going away as well.

I found another Wikipedia blurb (Pontiac Silverdome page) that implies the Windsor consideration is off the table:

[i]"The [Pontiac Silverdome] is now closed and will eventually be torn down or significantly modified as part of the redevelopment of the property. The developer for this has yet to be selected by the City of Pontiac.

The Lions moved to the new Ford Field at the beginning of the 2002 season. ... Plans have been mooted for a Windsor-based Canadian Football League team that might use the Silverdome for playoff games."[/i]


I did some searching but only found articles on the fact that then-commissioner Wright and Windsor mayor Eddie Francis were to have talks regarding a CFL expansion team in Windsor during the run up to Super Bowl XL (Detroit) last year. This was the mayor's idea and not the CFL's.

Oddly, in one of the articles I read, the commissioner was quoted as saying that the CFL hasn't yet done their homework on Windsor. I found this strange considering that there is very short list of perhaps half a dozen or so cities in Canada that might be candidates for CFL expansion. You'd think the league would have a pretty good handle on potential franchise locations in Canada. Perhaps the CFL really hadn't considered Windsor for expansion or perhaps they just didn't want to appear too eager to get into a market that is so close to an existing NFL franchise...

get into a market that is so close to an existing NFL franchise...

Although the Lions may actually make people in the Windsor area want another pro team as the Lions aren't exactly a model franchise. When is the last time they made the playoffs? Seems like eons ago.

What about everyone in Windsor going to Lions games? This was a big problem not so long ago with Hamilton, Toronto and Buffalo, and Vancouver and Seattle ...

I thought I read somewhere that Windsor was Gleiberman territory....

I think you are right, meaning Windsor will never get close to a team.

IMO, Windsor is the closest thing to having an American based team without actually expanding across the border. I believe it could work, provided the CFL did some discreet promotion in Detroit.

I still beleive the CFL should expand to a CFL2, however I have recently read up on what AFL 2 players are making per game.(under 250$ per week with a 50$ win bonus)
so seeing that, it seems apparent that a 6 team Loop in Canada could in fact work and wouldn't even need to pay rookie players half the Base Pay I original thought.
They could get good young guys up here for under 1K Canadian a week.
I'm re-thinking a 6 team loop where players get paid 800 or 900 base + 100$ for winning a game. + an extra 100 for each year of experience.(all figures in USD)
14 game reg-season(2 game pre-season)
Player Pay comes(.500 team)(rookie player) out to: 13.3K(USD)
Team Average: 505.4K(USD) for a pure rookie team,(add 53.2K for each year of team average experience increase)

  • Travel + living expenses + pre-season + Playoff pay.

Since this League would be in atleast 3 Cities on the top of CFL expansion List it would be used to Gauge interest in a CFL team, Team gets good support they move up the list.
If this Team is in Windsor it will deal with NFL problems, thus the Sooner this League is to Start it's season the better, Late May is an idea however then Players will not be able to go to CFL camps.

possible Solution:
Let CFL TC Start in mid may, first pre-season game in the 3rd week of may, CFL season would Start in June.
The CFL season would be a 20 week(each team gets 2 byes Starting 8 consective weeks of 2 teams having byes in July, done by Labour Day) *will need to be changed in Case of CFL expansion to a 9th or 10th city.
this CFL2 TC starts in the last week of May, CFL2 Pre-season starts in June, Season/playoffs are done before October.

**the big problem with this is that alot of CFL teams do alot of Signings after the NFL draft(april 28th-29th) and this shrinks the window down to two weeks(when some players are still negotiating with NFL teams)
*possible solution get those players to go to the CFL2 for the CFL2 season and if they impress there then they can go to a CFL team after the CFL2 season is done(depending on Playoffs atleast 3 CFL games but up to 5 CFL reg-season games and up to 8 with playoffs)

This would be a good way to introduce NCAA/CIS guys to the CFL as it lets them get alot of games in at the CFL2 level then some CFL games allowing an easier Transition.
Given Suitible Facilities these teams should do well finacially if they are in football cities as is being said.(London, Windsor, Quebec are the top 3 of non-CFL towns that aren't likely to get teams soon, Halifax and Ottawa are the top two on expansion lists)

Ideally an 8 team CFL2(Division 2 Canadian Football) would exist, this could mean adding a team in Ottawa and Montreal. this would mean that teams play:
Regular season Format:
Two Division.
teams play Division Rivals 4 times each(two at home and Two Away) 12 games total
Teams have 2 Games(one home and one away) against their non-Division Rivals.
Pre-season games are also against non-division Rivals(forming a home and home bond with their reg-season games)
Teams alternate who they play from the other Division every year.

I still like London.

In 1968 when I lived in Windsor
there was no CBC TV station there,
so CFL games weren't available on TV.

Sports fans were fans of Detroit teams.

I think repercussions of that
may still be being felt today.

Dads do pass down there passion towards
certain Sports teams to their sons.

I don't think there are enough CFL fans
in Windsor to form a season ticket base.

Whenever we have discussed this here
not many people gave a good argument
to prove that I was way off base.

Windsor would need to exspand their stadium.

[url=http://www.windsorlegiontrack.com/Lancers/Stadium/April/Seatsarein.jpg]http://www.windsorlegiontrack.com/Lance ... sarein.jpg[/url]

Windsor would need at least another 20 000 seats added to their stadium to make it work.