Will the Argonauts survive to see their Sesquicentennial?

Serious question.

The Argonauts will have been in existence as a football team for 150 years in 2023.

Their attendance over the past two home games equals about the same or less than several other teams attendance in one home game.

I know that MLSE has stated that they are in this (ownership of the Argonauts) for the long haul, but they can’t even stop the attendance bleeding, never mind healing the patient. Even they must have a tolerance for monetary losses.

Any thoughts that the Argonauts survive (in Toronto) to see their sesquicentennial anniversary?

…I learned a new word today :slight_smile:

I think so. 2023 is probably the soonest they host a GC again…and they will last at least till that.

I hope so. This league depends on all teams being healthy and successful. It pisses me off when I see empty seats in the stadium. I keep thinking that the City of Toronto does not deserve the Argos. I also wonder why the Leafs, who have a losing track record, infinitely worse than the Argos, have no issues keeping the crowds coming. I wonder, is football dying in Eastern Canada?

Hard to say. They ve been calling for the demise of the Argos since the late 80s. However, with some exceptions like the John candy era and maybe 2004 through 2006, attendance has consistently fallen year after year since the 1983 (arguably when they were at their peak). Remember last few years at Skydome and crowds of 18-20k everyone thought that was bad. Last week’s under 10k crowd versus Calgary was the lowest attendance for a regular season home game (excluding those out of town home games in 2015) since the early 1950s!. Apparently we have two home games left against Ottawa! Another miserable team. Those crowds could be even less. if this keeps up even MLSe has to say it’s not worth it and either move the team to Guelph or London or just retire the franchise. Sad to say but the bitter truth.

There is a another quirky possibility that sounds like impossible with the recent past in Toronto but sports teams are just that quirky trinkets especially ones with a low buy in .

If they are that tapped out MLSE . They maybe required to sell or try to sell before folding .

Then you never know who might be waiting in the wings to throw a burr in the saddle of MLSE .

Now that the stadium issue is settled they might not want to see what awaits the open door . They have a free reign right now .

Never say never ; the stadium is the hard part there is always somebody who thinks they have the answer or like the challenge .

Being a city stadium and not a private stadium like Rogers Dome it opens a door to that unknown outsider .

Definitely it frees up the league to try a different approach with broadcasting and rights .

Sadly ? there is no CFL league without the Argos.
They have to survive!

They’ll survive. If they were getting the same crowds a 11-2 team as opposed to the garbage on the file now, then there’s a reason to be concerned.

Otherwise, with a level of cost certainty that the CFL has…very low to operate compared to the other teams they own, the losses are rounding errors for them.

…it would be a sad day if the Argos folded but the league would soldier on just like it did when Montreal, Ottawa and Balmy Beach went belly up…

There is no CFL league without the Riders you mean.
Look at the ratings thread, the Riders drive the TV ratings. The Riders have the highest attendance in the league and when the Riders visit other cities they boost the attendance.
Did you see all the green shirts at the game in Toronto yesterday.
Of course the league would survive without the Argos just like we survived with no Montreal and then no Ottawa.
As I mentioned in another thread, MLSE will continue to support the Argos just like they support the AHL hockey team as well as the Leafs and they operate NASL TFC2 as well as the MLS TFC.
Small crowds are here to stay in Toronto, it doesn’t matter if the Argos come off a Grey Cup year or a 2 - 16 year. They get attendance bumps when the Ticats are winning and the Riders come to town and when the Ex is on in August.

I agree. What’s really sad and frustrating though is that the Argonauts need the city of Toronto and the CFL needs the Greater Toronto media market.

But my wish is for the CFL to prosper, and not just “soldier on”.


This is as credible as the solution to climate change. There ain’t one.

The league will prop them up as usual and some team will GIVE them a premier player via the trade route… I’m no Kreskin. I just remember the past.

I’ve watched American football all my life but have only recently become a fan of the Canadian game. Having just discovered a passion for this unique(to me) brand of football I would hate to see the end of a franchise, especially the one closest to my neck of the woods(CLE, OH) I’ve noticed a lot of empty seats in a number of stadiums and it has me worried about the health of the league. Hopefully the Argos can right the ship and keep on keeping on…

Argos, are not going anywhere. MLSE and the League need to do one small thing around Toronto. Its a little ittby bitty think called Promotion!!

Not that it’s hugely important, but The Hamilton Tiger Cats are actually closer to Cleveland than the Argos, and as much as it pains me to say as a 'Cat fan, I don’t want see the Argos fold. It’s a great rivalry, especially on Labour Day.

Interesting the number of US fans on this site .

If they could get more exposure on regular US TV even if cable networks like paramount for example I feel this tiny representation I am seeing on these boards from US fans there maybe a market untapped that could Foster some revenue .

Not saying get rid of ESPN altogether but the games need to be televised even on a cable network for the one’s ESPN chooses not to air on a regular TV broadcast .

I am sure there are advertising guys saying I can make it work if you let me at it .

If the Argos were to fold, the Ticats would be the first to feel the pain.

Other teams would tough it out, but I’m afraid the Ticats, without their arch rivals, would be the next team to become the league’s question mark. Lose them, and without a team in the most densely-populated part of the country, the league would be hanging by a thread.

I hope I’m long gone before the Argos are.

Just a thought Maybe the whole thing needs to be configured to something more Canadian with a less is more approach .

There is something about being authentic that draws people .

Reduce salaries and expenses by converting the league to a more basic approach where it’s still professional but is more Canadian in it’s make up .

Before people scream Canadians can’t play I find the CIS has made some of their games a much higher quality when it comes to quality of play .

So somewhere between CIS and the CFL maybe a sweet spot where they get 12,000 to 30,000 in more intimate venues across Canada to see our boys growing up to play our game and no longer NFL lite .

Play on traditional times like late summer start and Sundays in the fall and enjoy our little home spun version where our guys make money to live this year but not money for the rest of their life like the NFL lottery winners .

I think NFL never was is an option and maybe a easier selling point for everyone as this version is not working .

More teams across Canada and better relationship with junior and CIS programs may lead to a better grass roots Connection we have lost compared to hockey .

Why would it pain you to say that?


The Argonauts are the most closely akin thing in Toronto to Hamilton. In contrast to the Argos, the Maple Leafs, Blue Jays, Raptors and Toronto FC can’t even be bothered to acknowledge Hamilton by playing in a league that includes Hamilton.


Could have a domino effect. What about Usports, Jr Football, High School and etc.

Never mind, I forgot the NFL. They will step up and support all the minor football in Canada. NOT! repercussions for Bell or Rogers, government or others to let this happen. I can’t even imagine the fallout from this.

Remember MLSE is owned by Bell and Rogers. I am sure Bell/TSN want nothing to interfere with their TSN subscriptions plus advertising plus Radio and sponsors because of the CFL. It would cut deep into the total subscriptions I think.

Let me do the math - 2 million Argo loss or 1 or 2 million house holds paying $10 - $15 per month for TSN because of the CFL. Currently 9 or 10 million subscribers to TSN and little content the country cares about. TSN lucked out last year with the Raptors but prior to that not much to speak about. It was a Canadian thing not a basketball or Raptors thing.

The players and the game are the draw for me but not when the stars of the league go down and when teams are 2 and 11 its a hard sell all around. What is the holdup with the Als? At least make a statement and don’t go bargain basement with the Schooners. If they can’t afford to do it right then park the idea.