Why is everyone against us?

Okay Balticfox, this is waaaay too deep for a football flunkie. ;D

I can’t help it. I had too much book learning as a youngster; and too little practical life experience.

:-\

I SO will not turn this into a lecture from the theology class I used to teach…

Didn’t you already say your piece with the testicle thing?

God and testicles ! This forum is so informative. Bobo got me with the Dude and his Dad reference . Boy, it is nice to be able to laugh while living in these screwed up times ! :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

Pat Lynch (the old guy)

All fixed for ya.

I don't have the cojones to reply to this....

Oh G’awd…it’s so nice to be able to come on here and “get a laugh”.

KEEP IT UP :slight_smile:

Nothing like a good old theological/philosophical debate!

Ok first off, why would nature be considered the greatest good? And also, how are you defining nature?

Second, nature is God’s creation and therefore it is at God’s will to influence it.

Third, God is not nature, nature is God’s creation and God exists outside of nature hence why he can manipulate it. That is why the miracles reported in the Bible would not be considered “bunk”.

Thank you.

Don’t forget our head coach has been against us winning more than once!

Which god?

Kill. This. Thread. Now. Please.

The Universe left to unfold free of any supernatural forces.

Ok first off, why would nature be considered the greatest good?
Because nature is the Universe. Without such, there's nothing. We of course wouldn't exist either, but we're not even a flyspeck in the grand scheme of things anyway.

And also to solve the thorny problem of the existence of pain, suffering, etc. in the face of the existence of God who embodies and must embody the concepts of all-good and all-powerful.

Ok first off, why would nature be considered the greatest good?

Second, nature is God’s creation and therefore it is at God’s will to influence it.

Third, God is not nature, nature is God’s creation and God exists outside of nature hence why he can manipulate it. That is why the miracles reported in the Bible would not be considered “bunk”.


If God manipulates nature, then it’s no longer simply “nature”. To be nature it has to be set loose and unfettered.

Secondly, if God intervenes in certain circumstances and not other ones, it gives rise to the question of “Why would God allow this to happen? Why would God allow a baby/puppy/kitten whatever to die a slow agonizing death?” The answer “We don’t understand God’s ways” is a pathetic cop-out.

since when is truth a cop-out, pathetic or otherwise?

Not to get too much into religion, but if there is a being who created the world and us, then would it not stand to be logical that his ways would be far above our reasoning?

Quite the conundrum.

“God is omnipotent; God is wholly good; and yet evil exists. There seems to be some contradiction between these three propositions, so that if any two of them were true the third would be false. But at the same time all three are essential parts of most theological positions: the theologian, it seems, at once must adhere and cannot consistently adhere to all three.”

From J.L. Mackie, Evil and Omnipotence

Omnipotence ? Don’t they have a pill for that ?

Pat Lynch (the old person)

Yes, there does seem to be some hard evidence of that. ;D

Maybe not in all ways, but we can nonetheless understand some of God's ways. That's why we're gifted with reason.

Consider this analogy. While I might not be able to follow Albert Einstein's reasoning when it comes to the Theory of Relativity, I'd have no problem following his reasoning when it came to solving a problem with four equations in four unknowns, or calculating the odds of making your point in craps.

The "problem" of evil is easy. God cannot get rid of evil without getting rid of that which makes evil possible, man's free will. Therefore he cannot eliminate the bad, evil, without eliminating the greater good, man's free will.

Putting it another way, God wants man to freely choose good as opposed to being compelled to do so.

The problem of the existence of pain and misfortune is much thornier.

:slight_smile:

I'd suggest trying Pornhub first. Pills would be my last resort.

:wink:

Well, if you substitute “pain and misfortune” for “evil” in the quote, the conundrum remains.

And, as we veer wildly off-topic, and before this thread gets zapped which it surely will, how do you reconcile “free will” with “everything happens according to god’s plan” ?