Why haven't the Bombers won a Grey Cup in 17 YEARS?

I think you make some good points, 2much.
The "mistake" Cal made wasn't letting Danny Mac go, it was not paying Matt a million a year to stay.
But how could the Bombers afford that?
They could not.
The US expansion, besides being a failure in the American markets, drove player costs through the roof, and particularly at QB and community owned teams like the Riders and Bombers simply could not compete.
The irony was that in the end the Riders and Bombers ended up paying other teams costs so those teams, could have their expensive QBs and win Cups.

As I said earlier, a big factor explaining why both the Riders and Bombers struggled was that when league revenues are down, deep pocket owners just dig deep and spend, while we have financial reality (bankruptcy) staring us in the face.
When a team like the Argos goes "bankrupt" the next set of owners just steps in.
That will never be a possibility in either Manitoba or Saskatchewan.
Which I might add is likely why the Bombers are a tad concerned about letting Asper in.

id b blaming jones, remember him? he wore number 17, lol

Arius, you act like I am a Cal Murphy hater and that is not were I stand. Cal was awesome.
But looking at the Dunnigan/Danny Mac season, Danny Mac was a proven Quarterback that season. When Dunnigan got injured Danny Mac played for at least half of the season and Danny kicked ass.
Dunnigan was a proven quarterback, but he was also proven to be injury prone. And when Dunnigan played for the Blue, he was very good, but he was not in his prime like Danny Mac was.
Danny Mac was on fire that season. Cal kept Dunnigan because he was favoured.
Dunnigan was nicked named Downagain for a reason. 92 bang injured costed us the grey cup, 93 bang injured costed us the grey cup. Im sorry but that was the beginning of bad decisions from Cal.
Befor 92, Cal rocked, after 93, Cal fell apart. But I still respected Cal.
He made some really bad trades after 93 that really did not make sence.
If you really want examples then I will provide you with some.
How about that season when we went 0 and 11 I think it was. Cal may or may not have been there that season I cant remember but that season was a product of Cals past decision making.

Jones,lol
He was pretty good , he just had a bad temper,lol

2much2soon, you hit the nail on the head.

waz it cals decision to bring in biker jeff?? cal made some not so bright moves yes, but common, the players play not the coaches

well I remember those years of constant complaining from the fans on Cals decisions.
Some people were pissed off.
Remember Cal was fired. It was sad to see him fired but he was fired.
The Cal that was fired was not the same Cal that brought the team to the Grey Cup years earlier. The Cal that was fired had a totally different mind set then the Cal of the Grey Cup years. It was like Dr Jeckle and Mr Hyde. Cals departer from the Blue was a smart move. Sure we struggled years later, but in community owned football clubs that is what happens when you try to rebuild.

Actually, I have it figured out.
You don't hate Cal, you love the back-up quarterback.
Danny Mac was a near unknown across the league when he was with the Bombers. I kmnow I didn't have any idea who he was....
He didn't become a starter in the league for 6 years, and backed up Tom Burgess, Matt, Danny Barret, Kent Austin, but did not become a starter until 1995--3 years after he left the Bombers.
And his prime years were in Edmonton and Hamilton, not even the BC years.
So that aspect of your argument just doesn't appear to hold.
There isn't a team in the league that would have taken Danny Mac over Dunnigan at their respective stages in career.
Dunnigan did have his share of injuries, but when healthy, he was simply a better QB than Danny Mac. Especially at that time.
So critising Cal over this is more about being a Danny Mac fan, than it is about any rational theory.
Sure, hindsight is 20/20.
I suppose if you could have been certain that Danny Mac would become a star, and knew for certain that Matt would get offered nearly a million to play in Birmingham maybe you do what is necssary to keep McManus.
But at that moment, it would have been crazy to suggest that Danny Mac should play and not Dunnigan.
And as your regular season record in the 2 years immediately after losing McManus were better than with him.....?

And no, Cal never coached you guys to an 0-11 record.
I'll have to take your word that you were 0-11, but the most likely year was 1998, when you were 3-15.
Blame Reinbold....wait...if it was Cal's fault, it can't be Reinbold's...now I'm confused....

I think you really need to look beyond a couple of questionable player personel choices if you want to explain nearly 2 decades without a cup.

But I would like to hear about Cal's bad trades.
I don't doubt he made a couple of stinkers.....

why u guys stuck on cal anyways, how longs it been since hes been here? we had chances since that...

I think that is actually part of my argument.
If I was going to list the top 100 reasons why the Bombers haven’t won a Cup in 17 years, Cal Murphy might be number 99 (his number of career victories).
It just doesn’t make sense to me.
And it makes even less sense if the argument is play the unproven QB rather than your number one guy, an all-star hall of famer who was certainly not past his prime (he was not yet 32 years old in 1992…)

Yes I liked both Matt and Danny. My side of the debate is not about Danny vs Matt, but about Cals choices.
And you missed my point about Cal Coaching. It is not about who was coaching in 1998. It was about the choices that brought the bombers down to the team that they were in 1998.
Put it this way, we were a powerhouse in the 80s and early 90s. Cal then made some really bad choices after 93. In fact, we have not been in the Grey Cup since 1993.
And it was in the late 90s when he really started to lose it.
Hey if I am wrong and you are right then why was he fired?
And why have the Bombers not been in the Grey Cup since 93?

Actually Arius, in that '92 game Danny was already a proven commodity. Throughout his time as backup he had come in to clean up and win games regularely. That's why we still ask why Cal would not make switch that had so consistantly brought great results all season.

It just got to the point where he was always going to be number 2 behind a bigger name so he moved on.

I certainly don't want to misinterpret what is being said or put words in anyone's mouth, so here was the first comment BB makes regarding Matt/Danny:

In 92 we should have easilly beat Calgary but Cal chose to let Dunnigan play after time off from a injury over a hot Danny Mcmanus. Cal never should have let Mcmanus go. Never. That was one of his first mistakes of many. His favouritism to Dunnigan was foolish.
Now, Danny Mac did play in the 1992 game, coming in off the bench. But if Dunnigan was healthy enough to play, I would play him, and I suspect every coach in the league would have played him ahead of Danny Mac. And lets define "proven commodity". If by that you mean a proven back-up, fine. But as a free agent in 1993 not one team saw enough in him to sign him to be their number one guy. Nobody. In 1995, when Dunnigan became a free agent, he was in a bidding war for his services, and was eventually paid the ridiculous sum of $800,000+ per year. That should give some comparison as to how the rest of the league compared those two "proven commodities".

Next, How does BB think you could "easily" have beaten Calgary? Calgary was 13-5 and prohibitive favourites to win.
And then he follows by saying/implying that a decision should have been made to keep Danny ahead of Matt? At least that is how I read a statement like, "His favouritism to Dunnigan was foolish."
If that is not what he is saying, or meant to say, then fine.
Meantime, however, while DM was still backing up in BC, all Dunnigan did was lead Winnipeg to first place twice, one Grey Cup appearance and a 27-9 record, which is the best two year period (for wins) in Bomber history.
Bad call Cal!!

I won't dispute that Cal was long in the tooth by 1996, and maybe firing him was the best option.
I likely am not even 100% convinced of that.
But blaming him for decisions in 1992-1994 that led to 3 straight 1st place finishes, 2 Grey Cup appearances, and a 38-16 record for the Bombers not winning in the decade after he left just seems unfounded.
Or is the suggestion that he should have been fired in 1992 for not starting Danny Mac?
Perhaps you might try a few things he did in 1995-96 which may in fact have impacted the lean years of 1997-98.
But no way does the DM vs. MD have any impact upon that story.

Anyway, to finish off, BB, last time I checked, the Bombers went to the Grey Cup in 2001.
Even should have won it.

Your wrong Arius.
in 92 Matt was injured early to midway through the season and Danny Mac took over and brought us to the grey cup.
Cal choose Matt who was rusty and still affected from his injury to play in the Grey Cup without a game prior for warming himself up. Calgary kicked the crap out of the blue for 3 quarters. Danny Mac took over in the forth and totally dominated Calgary.
Yes bad call Cal.
And the 27-9 record for the two years he played for Winnipeg was not all won by him. Remember he was out for at least half the season in 92.
But we dont have to continue because I have agreed with you on many issues such as Cal being a football genius in his prime and yes Matt was one of the greatest of all time.

If you respond after this, I will let you have the last word.
Promise.
Regarding the Cal/Matt/Danny stuff at least.
There is room for more debate over the bigger question in the thread title.

But I have a tough time leaving your assessment of the Grey Cup game in 92 as is.
Calgary were heavy favourites going into that game.
Only Bomber fans saw any real chance you could win.
The fact that you were dominated through 3 quarters had more to do with the fact that Calgary was simply a better team than it ever will have with who the starting QB was for Winnipeg.
Having said that, yes, hindsight is 20/20 and it says you could not have done worse by starting Danny Mac.
I highly doubt you would have then won the game, and then 15 years later people would be criticizing Cal and Urban, “why in the world would they play an unproven Danny Mac when they had one of the best QBs of the day on the sideline”.
Their is no way to beat the power of hindsight and “could have/might have”.
I say you play your best player and take your chances, which is what they did.

But one thing I can say with some certainty.
Judging how a back-up QB may have played for an entire game, based on his performance in the 4th quarter is pretty unreliable.
With a 24 nothing lead, Winnipeg starts taking chances, and Calgary lets the foot off the accelerator.
It is nearly as ridiculous to assume that D Mac could have won that game based on the 4th quarter results as it is to blame not winning the Cup for the next 15 years on the gametime decision to start your number one QB ahead of your back-up in one game…

'Nuff said.

ok fair enough. Lets talk about the Blue and how they are doing now.
What can be changed to make them start winning.
What can bring them back to their powerhouse years?

You know what?
I don't think there is much wrong with them at the moment.
I am a huge Kevin Glenn fan, so while I know many Bomber fans remain skeptical, I think he will prove himself.
And you might have the best one-two receiving tandem in the league this year, and with Sir Charles...?
I guess we'll see how your o-line holds up.
And can the D duplicate last years stellar effort.

In the front office, I was never a Taman fan, and thought you should have punted him 2 years ago, but last year was actually his best year, and for the most part, he seems to have had a decent offseason this year.
I am picking the Bombers to finish first this year.

Outside the football operations themselves, you know more about your BoDs than I, and the various politics involved.
The Asper deal, or the other one, will pay enormous benefits for the team in the next 20 or so years.
Assuming they get it done.
But some of the problems of the last 20 years, you have in common with the Riders.
And that is, that in an era of free agency, when the league struggles, so do we.
We simply cannot generate enough internal revenues to compete for players when private owners are paying their QBs enormous sums, and even o-lineman are getting 150,000 a year.
But with the increased stability of the whole league, and hopefully a successful salary cap, nobody benefits more from those aspects than the Riders and Bombers!

So I think some of the things that will allow both the Riders and Bombers to return to their glory years are already in place.
Now we just need management that is capable of taking full advantage.
In that regard, I think both BoDs have some question marks, and both Taman and ET are on the hot seat.

All I really know, is talking about it....I can hardly wait for Labour Day......

I will be there to kick your door in too and park on your lawn,lol

What events to you usually attend befor and after the labour day game?

As far as the BOD for the Blue, I think they have done alot more than anyone ever asked of them.
I also agree that the Bombers will have a better year this year in more ways than one.
I am not sure about first place, but they will be one of the top teams for sure.

Normally we just BBQ before the game and then hit a few pubs after.
I'm too old to do much more than that and survive.....

Glad to hear your BoD is satisfactory.
The Rider BoD is okay, but they have got some blind spots.
And I think Hopson is just a blackhole for his salary....
Not enough football people at the top for my liking.

Yea I dont party like I used to either.
There is a pub that we hit yearly that is walking distance from Taylor feild where you can buy a 6 draft sampler in smaller glasses.
We go there every year befor the game.
Do you know what pub I am talking about? They serve good food there too.