What's gonna happen when...

It's revealed that the players causing the most problems are jovon johnson and jonathan hefney.. are people gonna be ok with them being traded cut or sent packing or are people gonna say OMG no, what are they thinking because quite frankly i have this sneaking suspicion that i think these 2 are 2 of the biggest locker room problems on the team.

Jovon Johnson is living off last years defensive player of the year award, the guys not a good person either, he's not very nice to people on twitter, he actually refuses to accept blame or responsibility, the guy "wants" to be a leader but, isnt leading by example at all.

Hefney has the nfl on his brain, didnt wanna play lb, whined in the off season just like JJ and quite frankly, is a little boy still.

im saying right now, its gonna be revealed shortly that these 2 are the ones causing most the problems, i just sense it, i just... i sensed it from the moment they ranted on twitter that these 2 are nothing but trouble. good players? sure but crap attitudes and quite frankly, i think in hindsight i would have traded them in the off season the minute they questioned the decisions of the team.

So, “it’s revealed” by virtue of the fact that you “sense it”? I teach Religious Studies and I’m always interested in stuff like this… :wink:

Actually I have little trouble believing it, but it’s complicated. Like someone else said (kasps? I forget who), as wrong as Hefney may have been to tweet about the Bombers’ off-season inactivity, he hasn’t exactly been proven wrong on the field. As of this weekend, we are the only team below .500 (and way below at that); parity seems to mean the other teams take turns beating each other but they all beat us. Losing and locker room problems often seem to be chicken-and-egg situations.

It’ll be easier to dump Johnson and Hefney than to dump Mack and Lapo/Crowton; I wonder which would do the most good. :?

People's attitude can change. When Trestman took over in Montreal after years of Coach Matthews and a tough season with Jim Popp at the helm (Not his fault IMO). Things changed in a dramatic fashion. But players need hope and have to believe in the people they work for. It is Utopic to think differently.

where there is smoke, it usuallly means fire is near by.

dont kid yourself here, take off the blue colored glasses and you will see that there are problems with this team inside that locker room, dont kid yourself if you think there isnt. there is, and when players like bowman and edwards come out and pretty much say it, well... how can you not believe them.

its great to be pro blue bombers, awesome, i am too, im just saying.. whats gonna happen when its revealed that 2 players that people seem to have a man crush on are the ones who are causing the problems.

twitter rants, whining about not playing this position, goofing off on the sidelines, smiles on faces while getting blown out, man.. you know, the evidence is all there.

I hope im wrong but i get the feeling that im right about it.

I like "Utopic" -- a combination of Utopian and myopic -- brilliant! Can I use it?

But yeah, I wonder whether Lapo has lost the room, or it's just the natural frictions of a difficult situation, or a couple of bad apples. No way to know from where I sit. If some of our wounded come back and we win a couple of games, it could be a whole new atmosphere. But if we're essentially out of the playoffs after the Banjo Bowl, I agree with papazoola, it's time for big changes.

Once they are healthy we will know who the slackers are. It could be because guys are still upset with the releasing of their buddies but it could also because the offence is so darn pathetic with no signs of hope. I don't know how long any defence can be expected to shoulder the laod without being rewarded at least once in awhile. Maybe Lapo and his reluctance to let go of the offense is the deep problem Bowman was referring to?

And killer, I thought you meant myopic, lol.

I actually agree with what killer is saying here, as I think these 2 have been the biggest disappointments. Crap on the offense all you want, but we all knew our offence was going to struggle. We expected our D to be much better. these 2 just seem so regular this year. Bad attitude can be forgiven when you are making plays all over the field, but not when you're playing just average. The D has been the letdown for me.
kinda nice to see our up and coming stars (Washington & Matthews) seem very down to Earth, nice change.

Really? That's not what I heard from Bomber fans before the season started. Heading into 2012, Bomber fans were telling me how 1. Winnipeg's QB depth was the envy of other teams and 2. how all the young players were going to improve, especially now that a new OC was taking over and LaPo wouldn't be so involved in the playcalling.

We expected our D to be [b]much [/b]better. these 2 just seem so regular this year. Bad attitude can be forgiven when you are making plays all over the field, but not when you're playing just average. The D has been the letdown for me.
Much better with Brown retired, Willis traded, and Kent and Lobo released?

No secondary is going to be effective playing behind a front seven that can't get after the quarterback.

It's not how you start, it's how you finish.

I hate the injury excuse but, they're down to 3rd stringers, can't make a judgement until the finished product actually takes the field and by the sounds of it, that should be around Banjo Bowl time assuming they stay healthy.

D & P:
I also was one saying we had QB depth to envy, and I still feel we do. The situation Brink has been put in is tough, and I think he still has a future. We are about to see what Elliot can do. We may have thought the O was going to improve, but how could you not, it was just as bad if not worse last year. Not one Bomber fan thought we would be an offensive juggernaut, and if they did they are crazy.
I said this how many times since the start of the year...... :roll:
Losing Willis, and Kent were not big shortfalls. Brown retiring was, yes. Lobo getting hurt was, yes.
Our D was huge last year, and even with the changes almost every Bomber fan - if not CFL fan still thought we would have a good D.
BTW - our pass rush is better than montreal's. :cowboy:

Your starter is made of glass.

The backup has done very little in three games.

The third-stringer has yet to be proven.

Not really sure why that’s enviable depth TBH.

Losing Willis, and Kent were not big shortfalls. Brown retiring was, yes. Lobo getting hurt was, yes.
Don't get why people are minimizing Willis and Kent's departures. Pass rush has been inconsistent for Winnipeg this year. I'm not saying Willis is the best ever, but I don't think you've filled his spot credibly yet. As for Kent, Bombers have struggled a lot with their linebackers this year and a veteran SAM backer like Kent would surely have helped get everyone lined up.
Our D was huge last year, and even with the changes almost every Bomber fan - if not CFL fan still thought we would have a good D.
The D hasn't been terrible, it just hasn't been dominant and the Bombers' offense is so inept that they have no margin for error.
BTW - our pass rush is better than montreal's. :cowboy:
Absolutely, it's better than ours, but not that much better, and we at least have a functional offense, which is why the Als are 3-3 and Winnipeg is 1-5.

Buck took some massive hits last year and played the most games in awhile. Yes he has bad injury luck, but that doesn't mean there is any less depth. As far as you saying Brink hasn't done much in the first 3 games....I'd like you to compare his first few starts to AC's first few starts. Guess what - not many QB's do come out slinging as young guys, it takes time.
Elliot has had game time, and has responded well. We'll see how he does in a few days. Hell even Goltz looks to have promise. You name me a team that has more QB depth.

You are really making a case for Willis and our inconsistant pass rush? He is the poster boy for inconsistency. Guys like Vega, Hall, Mainor and Turner (when they can all get on the field at once) will greatly improve our Dline. BTW - how have Willis and Kent done so far this year? Oh yeah.....

lol, man, if burris went down, so would the cats, thats why the brought him in anyways, to be the saviour. He gets hurt, let's see what porter does, probably not much more than brink and porters been around longer.

the injury excuse sucks but to be blind and thinking that missing guys like suber,stewart,logan,watson,douglas,january,pierce,garrett,the list goes on and on and on really... you know at one point in the year, actually a few weeks ago against edmonton i think, the game they won actually, something like 11 guys who were on the IR, if theyy werent they would have been starting.

no team has that depth.

altho you know what man, i agree bombers suck, ticats should destroy them..but what are you gonna say if the bombers and all their injuries and "3rd" string qb beat the crap out of you this week?

if you win, meh, you're supposed too cuz the bombers just suck crap right, but what if they come out and beat the cats this week. then what are you gonna say? Luck? fluke?

lol. should really watch what you say cuz your words may come back to haunt you.

BOMBERS SUCK FOR SURE, but if they beat the cats this week, you know, 2-5 for winnipeg 3-4 for ticats.

1 game back, i mean its funny that people dont understand that winnipeg, with alll their injuries and how "crappy" they are, they are really only 2 games out of first place in the east with 12 games to go.

And was still crap even when healthy. The numbers don't lie.

Yes he has bad injury luck, but that doesn't mean there is any less depth. As far as you saying Brink hasn't done much in the first 3 games....I'd like you to compare his first few starts to AC's first few starts. Guess what - not many QB's do come out slinging as young guys, it takes time. Elliot has had game time, and has responded well. We'll see how he does in a few days. Hell even Goltz looks to have promise. You name me a team that has more QB depth.
Any team can use the "Calvillo sucked early and became a star" argument. What makes the Bombers different? Why should any other team envy the Bombers' QB depth? Seems to me that Winnipeg's QB depth is just about on part with the rest of the league: not bad, but not great either, because mostly unproven. Only difference is that Winnipeg is the one team without a legitimate starter.

Not really sure how any other team's GM looks at Winnipeg and says, "Damn! What I wouldn't give for a starter who can't stay healthy, a backup who did squat in 3 games, and a third-stringer who hasn't proven himself yet."

On Goltz 'having promise': what does that mean, apart from the overvaluation that fans of a team tend to have for even their marginal / unproven players? Goltz has as much promise as any team's fourth-string quarterback.

You are really making a case for Willis and our inconsistant pass rush? He is the poster boy for inconsistency.
Why rag on a guy because he's no longer a Bomber? Willis had his issues, and wasn't perfect by any means, but he also gave you production at the end position that you have not yet replaced.
Guys like Vega, Hall, Mainor and Turner (when they can all get on the field at once) will greatly improve our Dline.
So why haven't they 'greatly' improved the line already? All of them need to be on the field at once to be effective? You can look to the future, and be optimistic, with definite reason, but I am talking about what's transpired in the first third of the season. Based on THAT THIRD, it's clear that the defense is feeling the effects of missing players, whether due to injury, retirement, or trade / release. Time will tell whether the new guys become legitimate replacements for the missing personnel.
BTW - how have Willis and Kent done so far this year? Oh yeah.....
Better than the Bombers, that much is certain. Willis is playing for a 3-3 SSK team, and Kent has landed with the league's top defense in Edmonton, who also happen to hold a share of first place in the West Division.

To say Buck did crap last year is a blatant lie. Yes his numbers were not great, but he gave his team a chance to win, and the players loved him. Also to say we are the only team without a leg starter is crap. All of a sudden Jyles is legitimate? Take any teams (for sure Montreal) starting QB out, and there is going to be trouble.
Thnk/say what you want about Brink/Elliott/Goltz, in the end it comes down to opinion. I believe that at least one out of these 3 will become a starter, much better chances than say a Mcpherson or Porter who have been around for years, and have done little. A couple years ago many posters were talking about the potential of those 2, same thing we are doing with our young QB's. No one is saying they will all be stars, but chances are good 1 will. I asked you to name a team with more QB depth. I look at the rosters of other teams, and only Calgary with a great backup in Glenn IMO can match what the Bombers have. Why do you keep coming back to this point? Are you upset that WPG fans have promise in thier players?
BTW - I used the AC example because you stated that in the 3 games brink has played he has done very little. I am not going to base his career potential on these 3 games, and all football fans should be glad that you weren't a coach during AC's early career, because you obviously thought very little of him then.

Why am I ragging on Willis? Because you and your buddy keep coming on here and telling us how much me miss him. You tried to make the foolish assessment that he would provide consistency to our Dline, and that just threw out any crediblity you had on the subject. It also does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that when a team can play all their starters at any given area (Dline) they will/should have better games. We have not done that yet.
As far as your last point - what the hell are you trying to say? That Willis and Kent are doing better individually than the Bombers as a team?? You made the comment that we miss these players. We have stated OVER and OVER that is false. Just because these players play on a team that is 3-3 (losing 3 straight), and the div leader has no bearing on wether or not they would have been the difference here. To claim that is foolish.

This whole discussion between you and I started because you nitpicked on my earlier comment that WPG fans did not expect much from our offence, but we did from our Defence. Not sure how anyone could argue that. So keep spinning your circles, it's what you're good at when we are losing.

He had the poorest numbers of all starting QBs last year except for Lemon.

Yardage: 7th
TDs: 7th
INTs: 8th
QB rating: 8th

He didn't give his team a chance to win. Your defense did with its stellar play. With even a competent offense, it's possible that the Bombers could have won the Grey Cup.

Also to say we are the only team without a leg starter is crap. All of a sudden Jyles is legitimate?
My apologies, I'd forgotten about Jyles when I was doing my quick mental survey of the other QBs.
Take any teams (for sure Montreal) starting QB out, and there is going to be trouble.
Agreed, but YOU were the one who talked about Winnipeg's superior QB depth, not me.
Thnk/say what you want about Brink/Elliott/Goltz, in the end it comes down to opinion. I believe that at least one out of these 3 will become a starter, much better chances than say a Mcpherson or Porter who have been around for years, and have done little.
In the end, TBH, I think it comes down to fans not being able to take their fan goggles off and evaluate their team fairly with respect to the rest of the league. I never said Winnipeg's QB depth was [i]bad[/i]. I simply disputed the idea that it was the envy of the league. Frankly, I think Winnipeg's depth is better than Edmonton's, and about equal to everyone else's. As in, you have a couple of talented prospects who haven't proven anything yet (Brink and Elliott) and a fourth-stringer who undoubtedly has talent but about whom we can gauge nothing, because he's never taken a snap of meaningful CFL football and it's easy to look great on paper (Goltz). That's every team, don't kid yourself. Every team's fans are high on the fourth-stringer, because he hasn't yet had the opportunity to disappoint.

As for Porter and McPherson, I agree that Porter has disappointed in the time he's gotten to start, but McPherson has barely played, not because he's not good, but because we've had a legitimate starter the whole time. He's done some good things in limited opportunity, and he's also struggled. Pretty much what I could say about Brink and Elliott, right? I'd say Montreal's QB depth is about equal to Winnipeg's, except that we have the edge with our starter. Maybe you guys have an edge because the backups have played more, but that's a far cry from being the envy of the league.

I'm not slagging the Bombers, man, really I'm not. I just don't see what makes your QB depth special.

BTW - I used the AC example because you stated that in the 3 games brink has played he has done very little. I am not going to base his career potential on these 3 games, and all football fans should be glad that you weren't a coach during AC's early career, because you obviously thought very little of him then.
Oh, can the ad hominem attacks, man. I'm not slagging you or AC or anyone. My rebuttal to you was that any fan of any team can trot out the "AC was crap early and became a star later" argument to justify poor play from a young QB. So what makes Winnipeg special? It's like there's no middle ground for you: either I have to say the Bombers are the best ever or I'm saying they're garbage. Neither one is true.
Why am I ragging on Willis? Because you and your buddy keep coming on here and telling us how much me miss him. You tried to make the foolish assessment that he would provide consistency to our Dline, and that just threw out any crediblity you had on the subject. It also does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that when a team can play all their starters at any given area (Dline) they will/should have better games. We have not done that yet.
I'm not foolish, I simply have a different opinion. And considering how the Bombers have struggled in the first third of the season, it's not an unreasonable opinion to have.
As far as your last point - what the hell are you trying to say? That Willis and Kent are doing better individually than the Bombers as a team??
It's about as valid a point as talking about how they're 'doing' on different teams in abstraction, isn't it? They're both playing and making contributions to teams with better records than the Bombers. So obviously they must be doing something right.
You made the comment that we miss these players. We have stated OVER and OVER that is false.
And I disagree with your [i]opinion[/i]. Ease down, there.

Look, I'm not trying to set myself or my team up as god here. I made a bunch of preseason predictions that have been woefully off the mark. I thought my Als would be in contention for first, that Hamilton would be in third. I thought we'd have a great defense; we have a brutal defense that has improved recently but still can't hold its opponent to fewer than 30 points most games. I thought Aaron Hunt would be a difference-maker; he was released four games into the season. I thought our coaches would be able to tell if we had the linemen to play a 3-4; I was wrong, and they made a mistake. But at least I'm not still trying to justify those preseason predictions.

D&P: Again, you’re going in circles, trying so hard to prove your opinion is right and mine is wrong. Again, you were the one who started this whole thing, nitpicking on my original comment, which again I can’t see how anyone can deny.
You need to understand you are the one coming on a Bomber site and telling me I shouldn’t be impressed with our QB depth. This is a frickin’ Bomber site man, imagine that, we have a different opinion than that of the Al’s fans! Let me ask you this one question, when expansion happens why do most assume it will be one of our QB’s plucked? I guess at least one team envies our QB stable.
And BTW – Goltz has taken meaningful snaps of CFL action. He took over for Elliott last year, took the team on a great drive and was the one who tossed up the ball for Denmark’s highlite reel catch. What has your 4th stringer done? That is depth.
So keep taking this off topic (this thread is supposed to be about Johnson & Hefney), keep thinking you wouldn’t love to have one of Brink/Elliott and Goltz as your 3rd & 4th stringers, keep thinking Willis and Kent are the reason we are 1-5, just do it on your site.

Apparently, holding a different opinion and being willing to debate an issue are unacceptable to you. Not how I view things, but if that's how you roll, knock yourself out.

I have no problem with Bomber fans coming to our site and talking about the Als, as long as they don't attack other users. And I guess I also feel that even Als fans should be able to take some objective measure of our own team. I mean, if you're just going to be a homer for your team at all times, I get that, but it's not conducive to good debate IMO.

Enjoy your fabulous, unparalleled QB depth. Us non-Bomber fans are just green with envy.

I will, and thanks for finally admitting it! 8)

Who are these "most" you are talking about? I haven't heard anyone say it will be one of the Bombers' QBs that get "plucked." I'm not saying your lying, but do you have a link from some of these people you are talking about?

I do think that Bomber fans have drastically overrated their QB depth, but I think every fan does that with their team (at least when they have their homer glasses on). Just go to the Als forum and see how some think Adrian McPherson is destined to be the next Damon Allen. Heck, Quinton Porter, Adam Tafralis, Jason Boltus, Tate Forcier and Dan LeFevour have all been deemed the future of quarterbacking in Hamilton at one point or another (and this is just in the last four years; don't get me started on Timmy Chang, Kevin Eakin and Richie Williams). Porter has done little in limited action, Tafralis and Boltus never rose higher than third-string and both are now out of the league, Forcier didn't make it out of camp this summer, and LeFevour has done nothing but practice and play in preseason games. Fans will always overvalue their own commodities and I don't see that changing any time soon.

As an outsider I can say that I don't find Winnipeg's QB depth all that impressive. Pierce is an average to below-average QB (and I used to be a big fan of his); Brink has been benched, so it is clear the Bombers no longer see much in him; Elliott is a player I like, but we haven't seen much out of him so it is way too soon to judge how good he is or will be; and Goltz has played even less than Elliott. I don't see Winnipeg in any more of an advantageous position than any other team in the league, except that their starter going into the season is the only one currently not starting. I get that you are going to look at your own team favourably, but I think saying that Winnipeg's QB depth is the envy of the league is taking things too far. It is something we are all guilty of (bigging up our own players), but there is nothing wrong with admitting you are wrong.