What's Changed?

Pot meet kettle.

Tired of talking to yourself on www.ticatfans.com again?

What comments are you referring to?

I haven't seen any.

And then, once we see them, can we get the proper context from which they were made? As in when were they made, what were the city's plans for the WH then, what was the city's master plans for transit, brownfield remediation, city building etc.?

Was Rheem still in business then? Whio ran the waterfrotn then, and what was their plan for it?

These are just a few quesation of the top of my head that took mere seconds.

There are way too many unanswered question here. This is a joke.

Ah, I see. The Mayor says the West Harbour isn't a suitable location a few years ago, but now insists that it is so you are finding any and all excuses to justify it.

Yes, they are and to be honest, even if we don't have the stadium at the West Harbor-front it makes sense. The area is slated to further the harbor front renewal projects, even if the stadium doesn't go there the remediation still needs to get done down the road. The Rheem plant/toxic forest are all eyesores as are many of the residences that are getting expropriated.

It's probably best to do it now as the city can tie it into an infrastructure upgrade/land remediation and still get a degree of stimulus/higher government funding to either expand Bayfront park or put some small scale residential/commercial development there.

Which is what this is really about.

The City doesn't care if the Tiger Cats make money or move. They have an opportunity to revitalize the West Harbour on the cheap and make themselves look like white knights. They will take advantage of the money available for the games and use it for their own vested interests.

The better plan would be to put the stadium in a location better suited to the TiCats and revitalize the West Harbour on their own.

I would be surprised to learn that Bill Kelly was not reading this site every day. Since he likely is reading it,
perhaps he will make reference to his blog report and say something on air to verify his points.

I must admit, I want to believe Bill Kelly as I am not an Eisenberger fan even if this story was all made up.
Somehow, I think Bill is telling the truth as Fred has already been caught a couple of times with his pants down.

Go ahead, Bill......Go for the kill! :thup:

He caught a politican contradicitng himself on a policy decision. Unheard of in civilized democracies .A journalistic bombshell to end all bombshells.

If Kelly wasnt so bent on playing "gotcha" and playing the typical talk radio crotchety-old man- in the coffee shop -complaining about government routine I'd take him more seriously.

Couldn't have said it better Ockham. :thup:

Of course they want the Tiger-Cats to make money. To say otherwise is ridiculous. The city is counting on crowds to frequent the downtown/WH area. Taking adavantage of available money is a great thing as is using it for the city's interests. To imply otherwise is also ridiculous.

The better plan would be to put the stadium in a location better suited to the TiCats and revitalize the West Harbour on their own.
Which other location is worth so much public money?

Which other site Captain? The one that the TigerCats and or sponsors are willing to put in some millions into, that's the one. To make the stadium better than just with what the province and city are putting into it.

I say, it's about getting the best stadium possible in the long run at a site the TigerCats see quite viable. In this way, it enhances and values the city's $60 mill and what the province is putting into it, it's called added value.

Ridiculous you say? What businesses around IWS benefit from the TiCats? The Dairy Queen? That’s ridiculous with sprinkles on top.

Well, for one there vested interests in this case benefit the city. The Tiffany block needs to be re-developed and I don't think anyone would object to some form of re-development being performed at that area. However, as far as putting it in a location to better suit the Cats interests, I would agree so long as the location is offering some form of net benefit to the city.

I think the East end would be a net loss to the city as it would damage it's image and offer next to no economic spinoff/investment benefit for the city, I think Chedoke park is debatable as I'd have to see how much revenue the civic course brings in compared to how much potential revenue a stadium/commercial complex could bring that it. Aldershot (which I believe is axed at this point) offers nothing to the city, unless Bob is talking about where highway 6 meets the 403. Good for the cats, from a visibility point and if it was on the North side, it might boost Clappison's corners, but I don't know if that area is feasible. The south isn't due to lands protected by the RBG and once again a complete lack of any development for a spinoff.

A downtown core site I think would be good, at Sir John A. (if it had the room) or the Wilson, James, Rebbecca Block. High traffic area, especially pedestrian and anyone coming down York or James, little remediation as most of the land is existing parking lots/a school that will need to be relocated soon anyways, boosts commerce in the core and closer to an abundance of parking in the core. The airport is also fine, assuming that the Aerotropolis takes off for spinoff. Also makes the project dirt cheap. However it is a bit far away from a visibility point of view. That and Upper James St and West 5th are both already pretty bad traffic wise right now.

Either way, both sides need to be getting something out of this, they both deserve to have something they want for the millions they are putting forward.

"Mirror oh mirror who is the most crotchety old man on this site?"

That's two reasons no one here takes you seriously. Go back to your own realm and yell into the abyss.

Predominantly the few bars and restaurants that are present, specifically the Dizzy Weasel and a couple others, which leads to the next point as to the problem with IVS and many of the East End sites is that there are next to no businesses near Ivor Wynne and those that are, aren't geared for sporting events. Car repair, Price Chopper, the LCBO, none of which I would be shopping at before a game, and likely not after the game.

However, nice family restaurants, bars, clothing stores carrying team/league merchandise, these are businesses geared towards a game and these are abundant in the core & on Upper James St.

Interesting reading. No real mention of a stadium.

[url=http://www.hamilton.ca/CityDepartments/PlanningEcDev/Development/CommunityPlanning/SecondaryPlans/SS-Secondary-plan-draft.htm]http://www.hamilton.ca/CityDepartments/ ... -draft.htm[/url]



Interesting reading

[url=http://www.hamilton.ca/CityDepartments/PlanningEcDev/Development/CommunityPlanning/SecondaryPlans/SS-Secondary-plan-draft.htm]http://www.hamilton.ca/CityDepartments/ ... -draft.htm[/url]


So why haven't these "nice family restaurants" et al set up in the IWS area? If they are naturally more suited for areas like Upper James then doesn't that mean the stadium would be too?

Did you read the quote from a local restaurant owner as to whether he would move to the West Harbour location if the stadium were to be built there? Google it. If you are so confident the project is a gold mine how about investing your own dollars and putting your money where your chat room opinions are.

Regardless of where the stadium is, you want a deal like "TigerCat ticket, buy one meal get another free." Or as a mountain restaurant and bar is doing with the World Cup, you wear England's shirt here during a game, you get a free lunch meal. In the TigerCats case, you come in on game day wearing a TigerCats shirt of some sort, buy one meal get one free or something like that. This is what needs to happen I think.

We need as many estabishments and businesses encouraging at "TigerCat culture." And if they do, we as fans should try and shop at these establishments and stores as much as possible.

They can't because all of the nearby real estate is taken up by residential housing or school institutions. Rezoning any of that land, taking the building down and building a new one is simply too expensive. Another issue is that the North East portion of the city has one of the worst crime rates in the city. There is also nothing to attract people down to IVS during non-game days and indeed the proximity to the industry just past the rail line and at the mills keeps people away. There is nothing picturesque about IVS.

Downtown however has festivals/parkland at the Bayfront, events at Copps and the Convention Center, GO Train access, shopping at Jackson Square/City Center, Theatre Aquarius, Office Space and a city that is slowly beginning to intensify the residential offerings in the core. The Chateau Royale, The Hamilton Grand and plans to convert the Connaught into Condo units are a good start, and the city is attracting developers with better GO access, improvements to the farmers market and various revival projects which are still ongoing. That and there isn't a shortage of commercially zoned buildings that can be taken over and renovated.

Upper James on the other hand, has long been one of the primary commercial zones of the mountain, with only Limeridge Mall and arguably the Meadowlands being as successful. High Traffic volume going to Caledonia, easy access via the LINC, several successful suburbs, proximity to Mohawk College, Mountain Plaza Mall and the Mandarin/Fortinos plaza and of course available parking has helped these businesses as well. Also no crime rate to speak of, which few buildings that have become derelict (although that is a problem that is beginning to creep up near the escarpment area).

Here here Earl, part of the reason I go to DiMaggios over Friscos when I'm at my buddy's place. The big Ti-Cat logo on the front door. Same with the Ceilidh House, Slainte and End Zone (Props to Greg and Grant for that place. Worlds better then Crickets was) I only wish Jack Astors had a site close to the stadium like they do in Toronto. The Argos post game party there is always good times, even if we win or lose.