What will it take to get a CFL video game made?

I know this topic has been discussed before, but because there are 74 discussions right now about "CFL expansion" I don't feel too guilty.

The bottom line on this subject: What will it take? Money? Fan feedback? A Canadian video game company willing to take the risk?

I think we can probably rule out EA Sports. Unfortunate, since they've made Rugby and Arena Football games. But the thing is, if they had wanted to do a CFL game, they would have done one already. Yes, no?

I can't help but think of the millions (yes, MILLIONS) of NFL football fans worldwide the "Madden" games have created over the years, from the SNES/Genesis days all the way to today's XBOX 360/PS3 versions.

Granted, the CFL has never been more popular in Canada. But it would be foolish to sit back and be lazy. I only hope our new commissioner is ambitious enough to pursue bold ideas like this.

I realize these days it costs millions to produce, manufacture, market, and distribute a console video game. But it's a risk the CFL should seriously consider. It's time.


Winnipeg deserves an NHL team! www.JetsOwner.com

8M$

That is what it takes, which is why I say:
EA SPORT
CFL 2008
"our Balls are Bigger"

Why you ask? It's actually perfect, TSN might kick in to help make it as all CFL games are on TSN then, so all their commentators could be used for game coverage.
with 9 teams the costs get cut down to 889K per team I beleive.
the new TSN deal 1.556M per team.(9 teams)
Means half the costs of making the game are covered by the new TV deal.
CFLPA would be all in for this, possibly helping to make it.

a TSN/CFL/CFLPA partnership can easily provide that 8M deposit.

What is the 8M Deposit? that is the production costs and I beleive they need to sell 250K Games to break even.
After 250K games they are making a profit.

I can easily see this game selling .5M to 1M copies.
and atleast 300K.

IF THIS GAME IS MADE MAKE IT START IN THE 2008 OFF-SEASON!
LET PLAYERS BUILD THEIR TEAMS IF THEY GO FRANCHISE MODE!
THIS WILL MAKE IT VERY DIFFERENT AND COULD BE A VERY GOOD SELLING POINT!

That's a good idea barnes. But again, I feel pursuing EA Sports (even though I know they'd made a great CFL game) seems like a waste of time. I just don't think they're interested.

I'm not sure how many Canadian game companies there are that make games for the Wii, XBOX 360, and PS3, but I'd be counting on them to develop a CFL video game - and for those systems.

Actually, now that I think about it, one way that EA Sports could be motivated to create a CFL game is if they hear a Canadian developer is pursuing such a project. This may make EA worry, since a CFL video game would most likely turn away Canadian Madden fans and hurt their sales of the 'Madden' franchise north of the border. They might jump in at that point and pursue the project in order to have a complete monopoly over the football video game market.


Winnipeg needs an NHL team! www.JetsOwner.com

re-"our Balls are Bigger" ------ "our Balls were Bigger"

EA sports is Canadian, it would make the most sense of any Developper as I don't know of another sports game company that has a french division.

EA sports BC(Burnaby I think) and Quebec(Montreal)

The only other option is, 2k Sports?
If they would want to, more for cheap is a good question.

The Costs are to cover any losses that EA sports recieves since this is a new game, the market is unknown.

It was posted somewhere the lil formula. I think one of the bomber websites.

33,000,000 people in canada
4,200,000 watched the Grey Cup
395,000 on average watch TSN Friday Night Football
29,286 is the average attendance for CFL games (06)

a production cost of 7-8m (USD) is the cost of producing a game on one console. Your production cost increases exponentially as soon as you try to universalize your code to easily port to other platforms/consoles.

the base target audience is too small. (nevermind dividing it up amongst seperate consoles)

Fortunately, now that Madden bought the rights to be the only producer of NFL video games, the other company's like 2Ksports could be tempted to building a CFL style game. However, both college and arena ball have a larger worldwide fanbase, and are more popular amongst a much larger, and stronger financial video game market than in Canada. So why would they? its about making money, not being 'cool' in the eyes of a few hundred thousand Canucks.

if it was such a great idea, and an easy way to make money .. someone would have done it by now .. if someone is willing to make a cheap-o version without all the bells and whistles, it could be fiscally viable - however, very few gamers settle for 2nd rate products in that market; especially when you are competing against the MOTHER OF ALL VIDEO GAMES (John Madden) ... it might not be direct competition in our eyes, but as far as most gamers are concerned, it would be ..

i wish it could happen ..

StatiK76
GO BOMBERS!!!

(oh yea, i got those #s from channellcanada.com)

Statik76, it's not just about making money now, it's about get people exposed to the CFL.

If it would really increase the costs to add more platforms to it, then the CFL would stick to one.

PS3 or Xbox360
and hopefully get a deal to go with one or the other, if your are going exclusive you would hope to get some sort of benefit.
Perhaps advertising or help in production.
just something.

360 would be a good option, because by Febuary 2008 there should be alot of 360's in Canada, 32K 360's were sold in November 2005 alone.
252K more 360's in 2006. so add in say..10K from December 05, there are just under 300K xbox 360's in canada.
from globeandmail.com: canadian 2006 sales
'In all, 1.62 million systems - both portable and consoles - were sold in 2006. That compares to 1.35 million in 2005.'

NHL 2007, was the highest selling game in canada... FRICKING NHL 2007??
that is a game EA sports constantly slacks off on.
I would buy an NHL game, if I wasn't certain it would disappoint.
I'm not saying a CFL game would beat out that, but would be close.

NHL 07 in canada was:
ranked:(2006)
1st - PS2
11th - Xbox
14th - 360
in Canadian Sales, Add those 3 together and that is a dominating Number 1 position.

To rank that high when NHL support is not much higher TV wise then CFL support.
the NHL on TSN averaged 400-500K

CBC was higher for both sports.
I think CFL on CBC was 565K
NHL on CBC was likely 900K-1M
So a CFL football game should get say.. 60% of the Sales of an NHL game?
although adding in the fact this is a first time game should really help boost first year sales.
Going next Gen vs. last Gen is a big question.

no they're not.

they have a development studio in BC, but that doesnt make them a canadian company.

there are alot of american companies that have a base of canadian operations..thats doesnt make them canadian.

Here let me specify.

Get the Bombers to go to EA Canada, they are Canadian.
Based in Canada, Canadian Employees.

Their parent Company is american.

Are the Ti-cats american? Their owned by an american. Same Difference no?
EA-canada was around prior to EA sports
they had atleast 6 years worth of games(earliest I can find is 1985, Hardball)

22 years of games made in Canada by Canadians, seems Canadian.

Worst case Scenario, you have a Video game Scenario that is "american" but has two major Studios in canada.
the Burnaby Location is credited with atleast some bits of Madden 07 for the Wii.
Are any other Studios/companies involved in a Football games + in Canada?

Seems to me that if they were interested they would have made one already!

Unfortunately it is about making money. EA sports or any other gaming company makes games to make money....not to market the sport!

the ticats owner is canadian...he was born and raised in Ancaster Ontario.

as for EA,

Headquarters: Redwood City, California

EA's five hub studios are in Redwood Shores (US), Los Angeles (US), Orlando (US), Vancouver (Canada) and Surrey (UK), along with development studios in Chicago (US), Montreal (Canada), Warrington (UK) and Tokyo (Japan)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_arts

thats funny, cuz EA canada wasn't founded until 1991... :cowboy:

EA, based in Redwood City, California, had acquired EA Canada in 1991 for $11 million when this Canadian software firm was then known as Distinctive Software.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_arts

It's not necessairly the CFL's goal to make money off it, EA sports doesn't want to lose money, thus the 8M deposit so that EA sports can't lose money.
But for the CFL Breaking even is worth it, because it increases the CFL's exposure.

Here is the forum where someone posted some numbers:

[url=http://www.bluebombers.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=250&topic=58.0]http://www.bluebombers.com/index.php?op ... topic=58.0[/url]

This is Numbers from one of the bombers Managment which where given from EA sports I do beleive.
that means the CFL needs to sell 267K copies of the.

Is it hard to beleive the game could sell 27K copies in all CFL cities + Ottawa and then 27K copies in non-CFL cities(Quebec + London + Atlantic Canada)

I see that happening.

the 8M is to cover all production costs, so if the game retails for say.. 30-40$ canada, before taxes, the CFL needs 267K copies to break even, no likely after that your looking at a 50/50 split of profits(between developper/CFL) maybe different, but atleast a 50/50 split very likely could be more favorable to the CFL since their taking the risk.

These games are retailing for normal game prices at 30-40$ before taxes. When Madden and NCAA football come out they are at what... 60-80$?
so CFL could make it's money that way, Charge 60$ before taxes per game.

The idea is, if you release this game in January/Febuary 2008 it should help build that CFL Passion towards Kickoff of the Season, make Fans even more insane during the off-season.
hopefully sell tickets or merchandise.

[quote=""drummer_god""]

the ticats owner is canadian...he was born and raised in Ancaster Ontario.

as for EA,

Headquarters: Redwood City, California

EA's five hub studios are in Redwood Shores (US), Los Angeles (US), Orlando (US), Vancouver (Canada) and Surrey (UK), along with development studios in Chicago (US), Montreal (Canada), Warrington (UK) and Tokyo (Japan)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_arts

[/quote]
Fine, Toronto or Montreal Wrong East coast team.

thats funny, cuz EA canada wasn't founded until 1991... :cowboy:

EA, based in Redwood City, California, had acquired EA Canada in 1991 for $11 million when this Canadian software firm was then known as Distinctive Software.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_arts

Thanks you got what I wanted.
EA canada, formerly Distintive softwear exsisted for atleast 6 priors to EAs purchase as a Game Company.

New Name, New parent Company.
When ownerships change, the nationality changes with it?
Because that means if Charles Wang takes over something it because a Chinese/New York Company? it doesn't keep it's previous identity at all.. providing he doesn't remove all the previous employees. lol.

I worded it wrong, EA canada, is Canadian.

Now by that same method.. either Tim Hortons or Wendy Became American or Canadian when they Merged.
I'm not sure which is which I don't want go over ownership history, their now back to being I supposed Their proper "nationality"
Key thing is if an owner comes in and buys the Lions, they become american unless the team is gutted and replaced.
Something I don't beleive happened when EA bought their Burnaby Hub Studio.

no - it would not be close. maybe in Canada it would be close (which i personally doubt, but i digres) .. Company's like EA build games for the world, not small niche markets in Canadaland. The NHL is far more popular on a world scale than the CFL is - By a long shot.

So a CFL football game should get say.. 60% of the Sales of an NHL game?
no. again, you are thinking these games are only produced to be sold in Canada. Unfortunately, the CFL is not much of a draw outside of Canada. That reason alone, basically eliminates 6 billion potential customers in the eyes of a developer.

Do you really think no one has sat down and crunched these numbers? A 10 billion dollar video game industry, and you think these people just happened to overlook the CFL? Or is it more reasonable to think that, its been looked at, and discarded as a bad fiscal idea?

StatiK76
GO BOMBERS!!!

The NHL has a size-able american market?

the Canadian market is a small niche market? whaaa?
Video games sales in Canada were around 76M this January.

Canadians spent a record $933-million on video gaming in 2006, up 22 per cent from the previous year.

I didn't know that 933M$ is a small niche.

Since when is the NHL a global powerhouse?
I have no doubts it has an american fan-base. but to think it's sizeable not likely.

I still can't find what kind of total sales figures NHL 2007 had in Canada last year or the amount of games sold for top 10 games are in canada.
but providing they are above 300K copies, it's worth it.
EA canada does want to make money, but the reason the CFL gives the 8M deposit is so that EA canada makes the game and if it a complete bust, the losses are covered so EA doesn't lose money.
There is no way NHL 2007 sold under 300K copies, they had to be around 400-500K copies sold.
Thats for a game that's released annually, I mean I have NHL games, but I didn't buy 2007.
Same with alot of people I know, simply because there is no need to buy yearly, changes are small. Waiting for 2008 edition.
You wouldn't have that with the CFL, people would know, if they don't get it now it might never happen again.
This game idea would not be a yearly one, especially not if EA keeps asking for an 8M deposit, build up is one of the best way to get high sales, and this has been building up.

But for the CFL it's about brand exposure, sure hitting the american market and trying to get sales does south is great, and should be atleast tried in some CFL friendly markets(I'd suggest Border-areas like Seattle, Buffalo, Detroit but also Baltimore(due to their CFL success) and New york largest market there is)

But the goal is, can CFL teams sell 30K games in each of their markets + Ottawa + 30K in non CFL cities across canada?
If yes they just sold 300K Copies, so each team made something like 80-110K$
Not huge, but it gives fans something they have been wanting for a long time, it gives it a shot.

there is a chance that 500K copies could get sold which means a 500K$ profit per CFL team.
Although sales would not happen overnight, it would likely take until Say CFL kickoff weekend 2008 if the game is released Febuary/March 2008 to break even, but solid profits should come in by around Labour day(100-500K per team)

481M$ spent on video games(just games, not consoles/accessories like controllers) last year/30$ per game? = 16M Games sold last year in canada.
That isn't much compared to the US, tis true.
The CFL is looking to try and be a decent part of that market(2-5%)
But that gives them alot of copies sold just being 2.5%(around 400K copies sold)
2.5% of the video gaming industry in Canada is impossible for the CFL?
that's a shot below the belt.

Moving the Release date to later in the year may be a good idea, since the Holiday Season is such a big sales time.
so a Labour Day Release could be great, have the commercials running during TSNs first Labour day coverage in 2008, have it released say the tuesday after Labour day.

ok. I've been nice long enough. Now you're just being an idiot. Yes, CFL fans in Canada ARE a small niche market in the eyes of a developer .. because pretty much no one outside of Canada even knows what the CFL is. and Yes, the NHL caters far more to a world market compared to the CFL .. by far. Think there are any Russians out there aspiring to be the next Doug Flutie? or Germans? or Fins? or Czech's? or Swede's? Slovak's? How about Americans (ok, Doug might not be the best example in the case of America)? The CFL is a Canadian thing .. only.

You think the CFL would pay a developer to create a video game??? Its the other way around. The developer pays the CFL to have the rights to produce a video game so it can use its CFL brand. You have some serious homework to do. This is basic, basic, stuff. No wonder you are still arguing; You have no idea what you are talking about. Why would the CFL pay a developer to make the game? The only people buying the game would be Canucks that are already fans of the CFL! its pointless. This is about making money, not being cool.

Sorry, we'd all like to have the same result .. some of us understand, and are just more accepting of the facts. You're just a dreamer.

StatiK76
GO BOMBERS!!!

The Division that Dose Madden is in Florida.
Montreal and BC have never done a Football Game

I never thought I would say this but Statik right!
EA games would have to pay royalties to the CFL. Sure Canadians pay lots of cash to buy video games but they are the games that have interest workd wide. Like he said…People in Europe will buy NHL or NFL games but they wont buy CFL.

an old article talkin about the idea of a CFL videogame :

[url=http://www.ticats.ca/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=4377]http://www.ticats.ca/index.php?name=PNp ... pic&t=4377[/url]

That is what I thought aswell, but:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madden_NFL_07

Developer(s) EA Tiburon (except Wii version)
EA Canada (Wii version only)

The Madden 2007, Nintendo Version only was made by EA canada.
Not talking Xbox, PS or PC versions.