What the MLSE need to do

Just thought I’d ask out there in point form, what the MLSE could do in toronto to help the fan based, weather it would be a year to year deal or a quick simple way, I’m a lions fan in bc, I know a lot about embarising turn outs for games, I’ve read a lot of Argo attendance forms, and figured I’d asked if people in point form could say what would help in any way!

It’s going to be tough getting fans to fight the traffic or long GO Train rides to and from the games. Much easier to sit home and watch on TV. The TV numbers in the GTA are good, just not enough of them are dedicated enough to do that right now. Going to be a slow rebuild.

Difficult to sign many name players anymore because of the NFL’s salaries. Got to look for little things that could make a difference.
How about teams be allowed some signing bonus money that wouldn’t count against the Cap. $100,000? to help entice some college stars to forgo the NFL tryouts to play right away. Teams would have to be selective and make sure they were signing a player deserving the money, but it could make a difference. One in the hand worth two in the bush kind of scenario.
Teams can afford it because all you have to do is look at the players stacked on the injured lists every year getting full salary.

Well under one of the things MLSE needs to do, I guess they did. Fire Marc Trestman. Davis Sanchez said it best. They won’t find a better Coach than Marc Trestman but will be looking for a better fit for Toronto. That does cover quite a large area. What do they mean by “fit”. I think some of the things kind of being said indirectly was about being visible in the Community.
Trestman has always gone home during the off season and was not very visible in the community. MLSE may want somebody who is going to live in Toronto and be out in the Community more often. Put that with a losing season, boring predictable offense, the handling of the Carter situation etc. it all wasn’t very good for ticket sales.

So to me Paul LaPolice checks off some of the requirements Popp may be looking for. Married a Winnipeg girl and lives year round there, so could easily move to Toronto for a while. Has Head Coaching experience. Good offensive mind. Knows the CFL well. Would come cheaper than Trestman (who MLSE still owes 2019 salary). Was a guest Coach with the Argos before he went back to the Bombers as OC. Somebody Popp would be comfortable working with IMO.

I have been a Argo fan since the late seventies. I don’t know if I will renew my ticket this year. I have run out of excuses on why nobody goes anymore.Get out of the Rogers centre, get new ownership, get new coach, we need a winning team, play more on the weekends, am I missing anything else.If winning does not put buts in the seats , then you have a big problem.They won Grey Cup in 2012 and 2017 and it’s gotten worse.The fact is the City of Toronto has outgrown the CFL.Toronto is not Winnipeg or Regina. Toronto has become New York and Chicago.Big league Hockey, Baseball, Basketball.It hurts me to admit all this , especially to my NFL friends.but like a person who suffers from substance abuse at some point you have to admit there is a problem, and the Argos no longer work in Toronto. Now what to do with them? I would suggest to MLSE to seriously think about moving them outside Toronto. For example Guelph, far enough away from Toronto that it still has small town feeling yet close enough that you can still call them Toronto.There are Sports teams that don’t play in there city. ( NY Giants NY Jets La Angles) CFL and TSN need the Toronto name.From a TV point of view what’s it matter if they play in downtown Toronto or downtown Guelph as long they are called Toronto.If your only getting 12000 in Toronto you might as well get the same in Guelph, and in the long run more of an upside maybe in time they will adopt the team as there own, and trust me on this it won’t get better it will only get worse because Soccer finally has its foot in the door in North America.The make up of Toronto is 50 percent immigrants and they grew up watching Soccer not football. That’s my rant for today. Thank you for listening to me.

Being big city has nothing to do with it IMO. Attendance at TFC games is good and MLS is something like the 18th best league in the world. MLSE has a conundrum. TFC draws well at the gate but suck on TV. Thier numbers are horrible. The Argos suck at the gate but TV numbers are strong.

How do they solve both issues? That is the 6 million dollar question (or about as much as thier Italian star costs).

I really like what Larry Smith did in Montreal did when the Alouettes went back to Montreal. Remember that they drew flies when they first went back, and even didn’t sell out Molson stadium when they first moved there. He said in an interview, they sold 1 season ticket at a time. He basically went door to door in the business community and sold season tickets.

There is no magic bullet.

Toronto is not like Ottawa, but the Argos can use the Redblacks blueprint for success. Ottawa has been able to draw 30 somethings to games. It is a great atmosphere.

One ticket at a time…

I agree. The bonus system for the draft is long overdue. League dictates how much per team but only for the draft. Will not count against the cap. Then the teams can go after the very best Canadians and sign them. Its the way out for the CFL. Me and you see it, hopefully it gains momentum. Its only one thing the league needs to do.

2nd is to get rid of the on field ratio. If the ratio is controlled at the team level then it is redundant and not needed.

CAP needs to move up. With $30 million revenue I do not for a minute believe a 7.5 million CAP hurts any team.

Field size needs to be updated. 100 yards X 60 yards wide and 15 yard end zones. Hash marks on the goal posts and the game won’t change. Maybe scoring up a little. Fixes a few problem fields in the league by doing this.

$30 parking doesn’t help!

New York and Chicago have football teams that are supported. So the fact that TO has grown, is not the reason.
I used to be a season ticket holder and what has kept me away is not ticket prices ( although higher than current would be a deterant) so much but moreso the other costs associated with attending. Parking, concession costs, beverages… i have all but stopped buying much of anything at stadium when I do go occasionally.

I see your point about parking and in stadium food but $5 a beer in the year of 2018 is a pretty good deal if you want a couple of cold ones. :wink:

Yes NY and Chicago are big cities and they support there football teams. The difference is they have the best football league in the world. They also have the best Hockey, Baseball and Basketball league in the world. Toronto doesn’t, we have the equivalent of the AHL league. That’s what I mean about Toronto out growing the CFL. I don’t understand it , if your a football fan you watch all leagues, unfortunately not in Toronto they want the best. I wish it was different. Thank you for your time.

Sorry but we will have to agree to disagree. The CFL is not an equivalent to the American Hockey League. The AHL is a big step below the NHL in talent. The AHL has the same rules and same sized rinks. Just about every NHL player would stand out in the AHL. Top NFL and US College players have found out to their dismay one can’t do the same “coming down” to the CFL.

The CFL is not a big step below the NFL in talent, mostly size. It is a different game played on different sized field which allows a smaller talented player to excel in most positions. Except the Offensive Line.
I just wish the CFL Coaches would get back to playing CFL style football instead of trying to force the NFL style offenses on us. I blame the Edmonton teams that decided they could find 5 large Canadian O Linemen teach them how to pass block and with a HOF QB Warren Moon could win Grey Cups. They forget about having smaller athletic O Linemen who could pull and block for sweeps and traps. Some of the former greats like Leo Lewis, Ron Stewart etc. wouldn’t be great in the CFL now. Kick returners maybe.

I would love to see the CFL get back to its glory days when there was an athletic TE who could not only run block but was a dangerous pass receiver, Mel Profit, Jim Worden etc. A Fullback who was a threat to carry the ball beside blocking. Cookie Gilchrest, Neil Lumsden etc. A halfback who was a threat to go all the way behind an athletic pulling Guard and Fullback. A QB who was also a threat to run at any time.

That’s the CFL I like to remember. But I can’t see it happening now. Coaches don’t seem to know any other style. Much easier to find those 4 or 5 300 + pound offensive Canadian Linemen for the ratio, teach them how to pass block for 4 or 5 seconds on every play and run the odd draw play with only one RB. Then the retired Canadian O Linemen run the CFLPA to make sure it stays that way and they remain at the top of the pay scale. lol

So I guess if you look at it that way the Coaches have made the CFL a poor imitation of the NFL. But it doesn’t need to be if the rules and field were all used to their advantage.

The Argos should do this, if they don’t already… Be seen, visible…

Toronto Maple Leafs' (from left) Auston Matthews, Frederik Gauthier and Frederik Andersen exit the subway at Osgoode Station on their way to the 2019 Outdoor Practice at Nathan Phillips Square on Thursday. (ERNEST DOROSZUK/Toronto Sun)
https://canoe.com/sports/hockey/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs/hornby-leafs-take-the-subway-and-take-it-outside/wcm/702cd653-ca01-4c72-9c20-983fc69c95b6

HORNBY: Leafs take subway and take practice outside

For a season ticket holder gift, could go with a public transit discount.

I loved it that when i was a season ticket holder for the Argo’s (at the skydome). I had free parking vouchers for a close by lot. Worked out great, because driving was so much faster and convenient when your coming/going from Durham region.

The GO train is great, but its actually more expensive than drivingwhen you get free parking. (plus the time factor was half)

There is only so much room in downtown Toronto or any other Big City in US or Canada for pro sports teams.
4 seems to be the limit in mostly every major city.
MLSE/Rogers delved into

  1. NHL & Leafs obviously
  2. MLB & Blue Jays
  3. NBA & Raptors
  4. MLS Soccer Toronto FC grabbed the spotlight most recently. With Toronto being more & More a multicultural city from soccer countries around the World.

Gridiron Football just doesnt have much interest in Toronto proper.
Thats no slight on the Argos really. Even the MLSE/Rogers multi zillion Dollar empire failed miserably with its attempt to bring NFL football or A top NCCA DI college football bowl.

Mlse/Rogers will need to look at potential areas in the GTA Burbs , Outer skirts in the Tri City area.
Building a CFL modern style stadium in whichever of these places they could choose would bring a big time facility for other big time eventpeople a growing area where people would jump at the chance to have pro sports & history of CFL Toronto Argos to support as part of their community.
Hamilton to the South of Toronto in the Golden Horseshoe. Building Tim Hortons field. The T Cats own thay area for sure.

Well said.Ive been saying the same thing for years. Toronto has out grown the CFL unfortunately.Consider moving them far enough from Toronto. One example is Guelph. Far enough away that you still have that small town feeling and less competition for the entertainment dollar, but still close enough that they can still be called Toronto for marketing reasons. There are teams that don’t play right in there city. If you can only get 13000 in Toronto you might as well get the same in Guelph. I think there’s a greater upside in a smaller city. I’ve been seeing attendance falling since the 90s, and all I’ve been hearing is we need new stadium, new owners, new coach and GM, a winning team. We have had all that and not only has it not gotten better it’s gotten worse.At some point a business person would say , it’s not working anymore, people aren’t buying what we’re selling time to move on. Thank for your time

I couldnt agree more. & have said the same thing. Its sad in a way. But times change. Toronto has become a Major international city.
The Leafs & Argos & then MLB with the Jays.
Then came the NBA & the Raptors. Now with the downtown Toronto proper has changed to that huge international city as we know.
So along with that comes the othe Futball aka. Soccer.
Guelf & the tri city area is growing. Big with Junior Hockey. Could really take pride in Argos & CFL.
I thought at one time that maybe one of the GTA burbs may have been a solid local.
But even now OHL Major Junior Hockey has gone by the wayside.
The AHL Marlies & NBA G league minors to the Mlse NBA & NHL teams are now there. & the MLSE/Rogers support them more.
Throwing the Argos a Bone to play at BMO. The Double Blue still second class playing in thevRED Stadium.
& the CFL awarding MLSE/Rogers a GC. It was a bust. The majority of the population didnt even know or care about it.

Shipping the Argos to Montcon for a home game in the Atlantic region. Is Shades of the Bills series at Rogers Center. Or Jacksonville Jags giving up home games to play in London.
Pethaps a better option may be to play a Home Game at TD Waterhouse in London vs the Ticats. Both the Argos & Ti Cats fans could at least reasonably make the Roadtrip to London

Some out of the box idea, that im sure will come with critism would be for the Argos & TiCats play an annual rivalry game at Tim Hortons field. With the Argos considered the home team. The Loyal Argos Fans & season ticket holders filling the seats at the visitors side of the Stadium. & for Ticats senior season ticket holders first chance to fill the home side of the stadium as an extra as part of theirvseason ticket plan.
VIP & Specialty sections in the end zones could be open to Argo & Ticat fans.

Ah, if only there was a visitor’s side of the stadium, and a home side. Both teams are on the same side at THF, as they are at BMO. I suppose this could work if it was visitor’s “end” and home team’s “end.” It’s actually not a terrible idea, although I imagine Argo fans who come from east of the city wouldn’t be too crazy about it.