What is the Esks record since Eric Tillman became G.M.?

Actually, you missed the point entirely.

The better man rises above critics with honest actions.
A lack of action limits them man to what he has been, not what he could have been.

yah, see Chief that's the voice of someone who thinks that football only exists within the confines of the sport, the field and the immediacy of both. It goes far beyond that - especially in the CFL!! That's why there's been so much hand wringing about ET's arrival in Edmonton.

If you think that nothing more than making the Esks successful is needed to exonerate the stigma attached to ET, then I'd love to live in your world. Sadly, the real world is far more critical and realistic than that.

I'd rather see him put in the humanitarian effort than merely fork over some cash. Great people, and even the good ones, don't 'buy their way in'.

Of course I can forgive him... but that's irrelevant. What's relevant is how ET wants to be seen.
Does he have the balls to make himself a better person?
Can he accept that he needs to put others first?
Will he realize that when he said that he's 'grateful to Edmonton for giving him a second chance' that there are many people who expect him to do something to demonstrate that.

Listen, my father earned both a Papal Knighthood AND an Order or Canada for Humanitarian Work so I've seen what doing community service really means. I don't expect ET to do that, but I sure as hell would like to see him make an effort. Not for the sake of doing it, but because he wants to... for himself and to put action to that gratitude.
And if he wants to do that, if he does do that ... well then people will start to say things like 'he's put his past behind him' and 'he's made himself a better man' and 'we're glad we helped him do right.'

See, as far as I'm concerned, there is no stigma. He admitted he made a mistake and apologized. The judge gave him an absolute discharge and the prosecution didn't argue. The family forgave him. For me the issue is over. If he'd been convicted of a crime and done some time like Michael Vick, I might agree with you. But he wasn't, and he didn't. I'm not going to act like my hands are clean and say, "You should do this and that, blah blah blah." If he wants to do community service it's up to him. Personally, I think everyone should just because it's the right thing. But I'm not going to make any demands.

Aren't the Esks already involved in several community projects anyway? By running the team he would be involved by default would he not? Of course there's nothing stopping him from going above and beyond if he so chooses, and he probably will do something.

I get what you're saying but IMO that's far too simplistic. You fall back into that same trap that's been rolled over and over and over whenever this topic comes up. For YOU the issue is over. But guess what, you aren't all of the Esks' fans, the Esks' Partners, the Esks' Advertisers, and you aren't the entire Edmonton community. It's not about what he did (or the judgements, pleas and analyses thereof) ... it's about what he is willing to do (good lord, how many times have I said that already?).

Look, like it or not that stigma IS there.
The division amongst Eskimos fans IS there.
The uncertainty within the community IS there.
The distrust of Esks management IS there.
The wishes of Eskimos fans to once again have a franchise they can be completely proud of IS there.

This goes far beyond what a few football fans see as important. And that is why both ET and the Esks need to do 'something' beyond mere football.

If ET was willing to go above and beyond he'd not only ease the stigma that others still affiliate with him but also elevate himself. And in doing so these discussions would become moot. The Esks would have not only a better team, but a person about whom fans could say 'we gave him the chance and he made the best of it'. How can that be wrong or bad?

No, he would not.
The whole point is the second part of what you said. There's nothing stopping him but himself. And he's the one who said he owed Edmonton a debt of gratitude. I'm pretty certain that doesn't just mean saying "thanks", turning your back and leaving it at that. And that's what so many are waiting to see if he is both capable of and willing to do.

I know this will sound very incensitive, but it doesn't matter what he does as far as community service. All he has to do is field a winning team, that's why he was hired and that's what he's expected to do.
Let's take the moral police thing aside for a minute..human nature has shown people don't care as long as you win.
The BOD has done their job if the eskies win, not if they have the most popular GM.

This is my opinion, I know many will disagree.

How could he not be involved? I just can't see that as a possibility. If you're working for the franchise and running the day to day operations and involved in long term planning, you're surely also going be involved closely with the BOG and any decisions made as to which charities and community projects the team will take part in. He would be involved by default because it's part of his job. No? Explain why this wouldn't be so please.

And neither are you. Seriously. You come off as someone who really hates the guy for personal reasons and is simply looking for a pubically acceptable stick to beat him with. It's ridiculous.

We're not talking about a murderer here. Quite a lot of people in Edmonton have moved on. If the family has forgiven him, then the fact that you can't is your own personal problem and something you need to look within to fix. ET's job is to build a team that wins football games, not to grovel sufficiently until you're satisfied about something that his actual victim has already moved on from.

That doesn't mean much. They went 3-0 after I got my hair cut last. Does that mean I should get a parade for saving the season? :stuck_out_tongue:

There's on question that the team has been better since the hire. That doesn't mean Tillman is somehow responsible for better protection, better coverage, better tackling, and receivers doing a better job of making catches. He's not magical.

The team is flat out playing better. For the answer to that, look at the players and the coaches (especially the ones brought in midway through the year).

Whether it's good luck or good timing, the team has improved since ET took over. So much in life depends on being in the right place at the right time.

Was ET solely the cause of the improvement? I doubt it, but the Esks needed a change and hiring a controversial figure may well have got the hounds off the backs of the players and let them do what they needed to do. In the glory days of the Edmonton Oilers, Glen Sather was a master at deflecting the media attention onto him and giving the players breathing space. One year he took a tape measure and found that the home bench in Calgary was 8 inches longer than the visitors bench and he took it to the league and Calgary had to cut 8 inches off their bench. He didn't get a rats behind about the size of the bench but the next day, the media left the players alone and wanted to talk about nothing but the 8 inches.

I think that the biggest contribution ET has made is just that, direct all the negative energy onto him and let the players just play ball.

You aren't wrong, it is just that the very Moral Police that you mention matters because the situation extends beyond the game itself.

The Esks are not only looking to rebuild the team (ie. success on the field), they are looking to rebuild franchise credibility. And while on-field success goes some of the way, it's the stuff away from the field that really does that.

Is it the Esks responsibility, definitely.
Does ET have the opportunity to prove his critics (of his non-football related activities) wrong? Absolutely - if he so choses. And if he doesn't, then what does that say about him as a person - and by extension the team. Probably not the kinds of things that the team is striving for.

As GM ET's responsibility is 'on-field product'. Community projects, outreach, charitable work most certainly is NOT part of his job. It's not part of most GM's jobs in the CFL. He has little to do (if anything at all) with instigating, planning and running any community involvement. That's where the team president (LeLacheur), The BoD (BTW, BoG is League, BoD is team) and the marketing, communications and community relations folks are on the front line. The assumption that ET is 'by default' involved in any of the things going on just isn't so. The Esks are already involved in many community projects and ET is not involved with them. No explanation should be needed. It's pretty clear.

Now with that said, if ET stepped up and said he wanted to be more involved with more community service, then more people would be accepting of him - and the team. And that is all that I've been trying to say.

Sorry, but you totally missed the point. Big time.

I don’t hate the guy. In fact, I’m one of the ones saying give him a second chance! But I’m also not so naive as to think that it’s all ‘water under the bridge’ or that ‘it’s nothing that a few wins will cure’. There are still a LOT of long time season ticket holders who are not happy. There is a lot more to the situation than both ‘the past’ and ‘his job description.’

As I’ve said a great many times already (shame you didn’t read any of those comments so that I wouldn’t have to bore the others by repeating myself) in the eyes of the Esks’ key stakeholders (fans, partners, community) it’s not about what ET did nor the accusations, pleas, etc., it’s about a) ET saying he’s grateful, and b) ET demonstrating that gratitude. Other folks (within this very thread!) have understood. I don’t get why you felt the need to be accusatory with me all things considered. :roll:

Sure he could ‘just do his job’ and leave it at that… but anyone with vision can see that he’s got a tremendous opportunity to really turn things around - for himself and for the team that hired him. Wit the right actions he can effectively erase the lingering question marks that many still have AND help the Esks to re-establish the team as a pillar within the community.

Bang on correct!! And something I've said several times (even in this thread). :thup:

look at the Esks schedule here at the end..

their 5 wins they've got recently.. who were they against?

B.C.
Winnipeg
Saskatchewan
Toronto
Hamilton

so if you take out Hamilton, which definitely was an inspired game.. although the Cats really should have won that game.

the 4 other wins were against teams that were pathetic!

now, lets speculate.. take out the Winnipeg game.. and insert, Calgary.. take out the Toronto game and insert Montreal.

now.. the odds are that if this was the case, instead of being 7-10, they'd be 5-13 now.

they have a weak schedule at the end against 4 crappy teams.

Nice attempt at trolling. :lol:
This thread had nothing to do with anything you've brought up. Zero. Zilch. Zip. Nada. Nil.
It was about the Esks record with ET as GM and the spillover discussion was about how much praise should be going to ET. What you have offered up is pointless and misdirected.

But hey, if you want to play that way... what was that you said about a weak sched at the end against 4 crappy teams? Which one of those 5 teams you listed has been on a losing streak? And which team are two of the last 3 EE games against? That's right, the Riders! Well, I guess you were right about the Esks playing some crappy teams part! :stuck_out_tongue:

Hey, Let's keep playing... I could use similar "logic" to yours and determine that the Riders could easily be 6-11 right now ... if this and if that. And then using your exact reasoning I could come up with a scenario where the Esks are 10-7 right now. Guess what... that kind of reasoning is pointless because the situation is what it is. It makes no sense BECAUSE IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!

Oh, and by the way... please explain to me how "instead of being 7-10, they'd be 5-13 now" makes any sense? How could the be 5-13 now? When would they have played the extra game? And against which team? :lol:

Do you honestly believe the crap you just spewed, or are you just trying to rile up a few Esks fans for this weekend's game? :lol: If you believe what you just typed, I can only shake my head. Look at Sask's last four games... Toronto, Calgary, Edmonton, and BC. They lost all four. You can argue that the Esks had a weak schedule, but we still won our weak games; you guys didn't. So what does that say about the Riders? :stuck_out_tongue:

Cflisthebest lists one hundred different excuses in 5... 4... 3...

Don't expect any logic when it comes to the Eskimos when cflisthebest posts. The Esks committed some dastardly deed to him, ruined his brilliant playing career, stole his girlfriend poked him in the eye or some other utterly disgusting act and he can't get over it.

Get used to it.