What did the CFLPA Reps actually accomplish ?

[RichardVeilleux]

The source of revenue would be all gross revenue of the 9 CFL teams-ticket sales,sponsorship, sales of merchandise,TV and League revenue-; gross revenue related to Grey Cup would be excluded. From Mr.Cohon ,on TSN,10 days or so ago.

Richard

[slant]

@"drummer_god"

@"slant"

I believe the CBA will be re-opened within 3 years as the league revenues should increase by more than 27 M in one of those years. That said I do not know what baseline revenue number they are starting with.

what source of revenues will the league get over the next 3-5 years that will increase each team’s revenue by $3M over the previous year?
there are only 2 ways i see the revenues taking a huge jump, and even that i’m not sure it will be enough to reach $27M;

• selling off the Grey Cup naming rights.
• renegotiating the TV deal early due to the addition of a 10th team, and thus a 5th weekly game to be televised.

the first one can happen at any time.
the second one will take more than 5 years to actually come to fruition, as we’ve seen how long it took Ottawa to go from conception to reality.

I take the meaning of the 27 M growth to be the total amount of teams gross revenue to increase by a total of 27 M. from a baseline presumably agreed upon.
I do not know what the baseline is.
Taking that into account:
I see Edmonton as increasing their revenue from 18 to 25 plus more to their norm after a couple of years of dismal
I see Hamilton as gaining huge increases with new revenues thru stadium
I see Ottawa as factoring in. Not sure how the CBA totals factor them in. I see them approaching 30 Mil this ear.
BC has increased ticket prices projected more season tickets
Tor is a wild card. Can’t go down
Sask is rolling
Calgary is estimating growth
Winnipeg will be huge. Much more growth. Merc sales etc.
Montreal: reported growth in corporate

[robsawatsky]

@"GHT120"

Average is a factual statistic. It sounds informative but actually tells us very little about the population from which it is calculated. The average salary of a $400K QB, a $200 OL, a $150K all-star and four $50K rookies is $135,000 but tells us little about how well off the majority of those players are.

As Earl said above, the “mean” would be a much more valuable stat as it represents the point at which half the population is above and half below the figure; it would be well below the CFL average.

Even better would be the actual distribution of salaries (how many at each salary) to see how well off most of the players are.

You mean not the “mean” but the median.

In any case, the “average” of any sort is merely a negotiating stat as it has no status in the CBA. From a fan perspective, I’d say we’d want the salary to be skewed to the higher end so key players can be obtained and retained at higher cost.

[GHT120]

@"robsawatsky"

@"GHT120"

Average is a factual statistic. It sounds informative but actually tells us very little about the population from which it is calculated. The average salary of a $400K QB, a $200 OL, a $150K all-star and four $50K rookies is $135,000 but tells us little about how well off the majority of those players are.

As Earl said above, the “mean” would be a much more valuable stat as it represents the point at which half the population is above and half below the figure; it would be well below the CFL average.

Even better would be the actual distribution of salaries (how many at each salary) to see how well off most of the players are.

You mean not the “mean” but the median.

In any case, the “average” of any sort is merely a negotiating stat as it has no status in the CBA. From a fan perspective, I’d say we’d want the salary to be skewed to the higher end so key players can be obtained and retained at higher cost.

D"OH !!! :oops:

[ro1313]

@"GHT120"

ro1313 - I dropped one of your posts form the above chain to fit within the 3 quotes limit; don’t think it changes your point.

Average is a factual statistic. It sounds informative but actually tells us very little about the population from which it is calculated. The average salary of a $400K QB, a $200 OL, a $150K all-star and four $50K rookies is $135,000 but tells us little about how well off the majority of those players are.

As Earl said above, the “mean” would be a much more valuable stat as it represents the point at which half the population is above and half below the figure; it would be well below the CFL average.

Even better would be the actual distribution of salaries (how many at each salary) to see how well off most of the players are.

Don’t worry about the quote

I understand what you are saying
What I am saying is that the average cannot be skewed.
Is it an accurate representation of salaries? No but its not skewed.

Unless we know everyone’s salary we will never know

[flutie0202]

@"tangledweb"

@"ro1313"

@"pressbox "

There are a lot of players that make between 45,000 and 60,000 per yr, - we can now say the average CFL Salary will be $96,970 but that is not really true , a player making 55,000 last year may only make 56,000 this year -

I understand what you are saying but that does not change the average

The average salary is skewed due to the top 2% of players who make in excess of $200,000 (and as high as $500,000) as the vast number of players make between $45-$60,000.

The starting 7 Canadians, and if a team is lucky the next 2 Canadians who are not starting but can plug in at starters if need be, make way more then the average. Bella for the Argos, even in his last year made 180,000, the starting Canadians make 95,000 on the low end to 180 on the high end. With the new deal that will go to 190,000 to 200,000. The Americans player, that fits into the CFL style of play, and still has the talent to play in the NFL, but does not due to age, ie if your over 28 or if you have more then 2 years in the NFL, the NFL players contracts stipulates that a 3 rd year player must make 900,000 or more. So most teams, just cut that player and go for a second or first year guy that is cheaper. This is how the Argos picked up Robert Drummond years ago. The CFL has a large numbers of players who fit in that category. Those types of players make more then the rookie min. yes on every CFL team you have 10 to 15 players who make the min, but you also have 15 players who make more then 92,000

[flutie0202]

@"tangledweb"

@"ro1313"

@"pressbox "

There are a lot of players that make between 45,000 and 60,000 per yr, - we can now say the average CFL Salary will be $96,970 but that is not really true , a player making 55,000 last year may only make 56,000 this year -

I understand what you are saying but that does not change the average

The average salary is skewed due to the top 2% of players who make in excess of $200,000 (and as high as $500,000) as the vast number of players make between $45-$60,000.

The starting 7 Canadians, and if a team is lucky the next 2 Canadians who are not starting but can plug in at starters if need be, make way more then the average. Bella for the Argos, even in his last year made 180,000, the starting Canadians make 95,000 on the low end to 180 on the high end. With the new deal that will go to 190,000 to 200,000. The Americans player, that fits into the CFL style of play, and still has the talent to play in the NFL, but does not due to age, ie if your over 28 or if you have more then 2 years in the NFL, the NFL players contracts stipulates that a 3 rd year player must make 900,000 or more. So most teams, just cut that player and go for a second or first year guy that is cheaper. This is how the Argos picked up Robert Drummond years ago. The CFL has a large numbers of players who fit in that category. Those types of players make more then the rookie min. yes on every CFL team you have 10 to 15 players who make the min, but you also have 15 players who make more then 92,000

[legalbeagle]

Quite frankly, I think the new CBA reflects a basic tenet of a free market economy, namely, supply and demand. The players got what they could in a market where there is greater supply than demand. One may argue it's not "fair" from a subjective point of view, but it is what the market could sustain.

[cflsteve]

@"pressbox "

As I look back over the facts and numbers of what has transpired with the agreement between the CFL Owners and Players Reps. And unless I am missing something , I don’t really see anything of significance that this band of offensive linemen player Reps . Accomplished . Without them even in play I don’t think the facts and figures would have been too much different .

1. The player Reps. Settled for 5 million - Owners main offer not their posturing offer was 4.8million - a difference of 200,000
2. The minimum salary has over the last several years always been about 1% of total cap - 1% of 5 million is 50,000. They did nothing for the Rank and File . There are a lot of players that make between 45,000 and 60,000 per yr, - we can now say the average CFL Salary will be $96,970 but that is not really true , a player making 55,000 last year may only make 56,000 this year - let’s forget about the one time bonus - in this equation - usually it is the top 1/3 or about 15 players that will make 6 figure salaries - the rest will be still kept down by pressures put on by all teams to keep,the salary percentage structures the same .
3. Only one practice per week with pads - mostly all teams if not all teams do that now and have been for years except for the exception where a team has a motivational or discipline problem then extra padded practices
4. Max 6 hr practice days - any player who wants to maintain and grow and develop as an exceptional can’t do without player spends much more time right now then 6 hrs per day - work outs - personal and team film work, personal and team practice time - the best players come in with the coaches very early in the morning and leave into the evening - they are professionals
   Not vacuum cleaner salesperson
5. No more option years after you sign your 1st 1 and 1 contract. Sounds great after a player goes thru his 1st 2 yr stint he can now sign a 1 yr contract and then bam free agent big bucks !! Sounds great but - there is still a cap in play if a player thinks he will sign his next contract for 25,000 more - where is the money going to come from ? Easy another player will have to take a pay cut or players - to,accommodate this new found wealth by player A - it will be no different then now there will be a small number of players that hit a small jackpot on the free agent roulette wheel but not in mass numbers - there is no more salary cap for free agents - one players gain is another players loss or even worse his livelihood
6. Ratify the agreement signing bonus - yeah - brain thrust of the player Reps? Not so certain if they had 1st demanded it or the owners had it as play . The owners were very bold to put out the golden carrot of the ratification bonus - true the Reps may have got it to increase - but a one time shot - here today gone tomorrow - it’s great but again is this all the Reps bargained for ?
7. 50,000 increase each yr to cap - wow !! The teams get an additional 1million dollars per year from TV moneys - every year from their TV contract and the players get 5% of it - great bargaining guys - the CFL Owners should hire you to protect their
   Gold - this does not take into,acct increase revenues from ticket sales - sponsorships , food and beverages. Parking, naming rights , luxury suites , merchandise . Grey Cup profits - etc , wow approx 1,000 per year for 50 players - the Reps should be ashamed of themselves - the Owners were offering this without the Player Reps even showing up
8. I don’t think there is any increase to playoff and grey cup teams share - again what a shame if their is no increase - I may have missed it - but the Player Reps silence here speaks volumes
9. Player Reps would not stand up for independent Medical specialists to be at every game to over see concussion control and protect players - why ?? To costly ? Well maybe we could take the salaries from the Players Reps. All the union dues and put towards these safety measures instead .

I am just not sure if the final outcome would have been much different if there was no Player Reps . I just don’t know if volunteer season ticket holders chosen from 9 teams could have done any worse for the players and you would not even have to send them to Florida to have brain storming and war strategy meetings at the pool -
We love our Canadian Football but I think we can see why there are players upset and heart broken - over their so called leaders - did they at least get the players another recess and potty break ?

The biggest issue is that the CFLPA was not prepared for this in anyway shape or form. There legal council was terrible not knowing everything there was to know before setting the players up for a big fall.
To me live and learn from this. First it is time to find better and more cost effecient Council. A Lawyer from Alberta not knowing the Alberta labor laws says it all.
Ricky Foley is right on one thing and that is that situation needs to be fixed. It has already been found by the players just how much money was wasted within their own Union. Hiring an in House Council from Toronto should/Will happen.
CFLPA annual meeting should/ will no longer be in Vegas.
Starting right now they should be in search of new Council and begin tracking spending and revenue by management as well as for their owner Union reps.

with the CFL at the top of its visability has enabled management to parlay that into much better Corporate partners and Sponsors.
CFLPA and each players agent need to do the same in acquiring endorsement deals for players.

Another great point is the new stadiums with premium seating creating a huge channel of revenue that is just beginning for several teams. So the next negotiations having those figures being tracked by the CFLPA starting like yesterday.
Hamilton, Ottawa, and Winnipeg are all just getting started with this

the Riders also have recently added a ton of premium seating revenue within the last two years adding premium seating to the old Mosaic with the better end zone seating which also raised their capacity to a solid 33K.

Montreal also recently added 5 K more seats, Better premium seating within the suites. So attendance was raised to 23K from 20K and now have eliminated a thousand unused seats and replaced that with the now popular premium patio seating.

Both BC and Edmonton have reno’d stadiums and have just added and/or upgraded more premium seating areas.

Calgary, under new ownership is just starting to do this at McMahon.

Leaving just Toronto as the only dead beat organization in not really making any of these things happening.
For the league they should be promoting games outside of CFL cities and the $$$ they are getting should continue this with the Argos as the team to take one game a season somewhere pre season or regular. QC at Laval, and Moncton in the Atlantic region has been done. Time to hit London, Vancouver Island, Saskatoon, York, etc. Instead of just giving the Argos money and Grey Cups make them earn the pay while marketing the CFL. A corporate and local sponsors being secured for these games will bring in even more revenue than a TUES game at RC or pre season game at Varsity.
Not sure if a game in the US at a border city would work but a game in Buffalo at UB stadium or one in State of Washington at Eastern Washington are two stadiums in which a CFL field can fit the proper dimensions.

[ro1313]

@"cflsteve"

. So attendance was raised to 23K from 20K and now have eliminated a thousand unused seats and replaced that with the now popular premium patio seating.

Well not exactly.

The seats removed were not unused
The were the cheaper endzone seats and were aways full. Now those people will be moved to new sections. But yes 1000 seats have been removed

The new fan zone that is placed there is not premium seating. The section will be open to anyone with a ticket. There will be new additional beer and food stands there

You can see a photo here

[url=http://en.montrealalouettes.com/page/the-new-west-end-zone-in-collaboration-with-budweiser-le-dindon-du-quebec]http://en.montrealalouettes.com/page/th ... -du-quebec[/url]