We're bad but there's a serious bigger issue

The bigger issue is the lack of competitive balance.

It has never and continues to not make sense that 9 teams who use the same rules, same salary cap can have such a vastly superior level and quality of football in one division year after year.

There have been very short blips but I suggest that the league has and continues to suffer very dramatically because of the inferior quality of play in the East and subsequent appearance of inferior quality as a league in the largest media part of the country.

I love this league and game. I have been a fan for over 50 years and a season ticket holder with the Cats for 10. I played football and I coach high school football.

This year is one of if not the worst imbalances I have ever seen in the CFL.

Friends, how long will it be after this year that fans in all the East cities will once again get to unsustainable numbers in attendance?

Another worry I see is BC but ownership issues play a big role there I think.

There are plenty of seats available in Montreal, Toronto is a complete embarrassment attendance wise and any one who was with us at the game last night saw hundreds and hundreds of empty seats and what I noticed most disturbingly was hundreds of people leaving with more than 10 minutes to go in the 4th.

I get it, we're a very bad team this year but the problem again is that so are all three of the other teams in the East and this is not new this year.

Even Ottawa with this year's cup is actually down attendance wise. I read an article by Jim Hunt in which he stated that people can get seats because they are not selling completely out and that's in the year they are hosting the Grey Cup.

As much as we complain from our armchairs about coaches and football xs and os, I would like to suggest it's deeper than that though also totally connected.

I believe the biggest issue is the complete imbalance of talent level which is actually a scouting and drafting issue.

The "recent," exception in the East was Montreal which under Jim Popp excelled for close to a decade in scouting/drafting and are doing so again I suggest in Toronto. Please note Popp was not a good head coach.

This brings me to Kent and Eric.

I know this is hard for many of us to accept given our current record but every current coach on our staff has forgotten more about football than most if not all of us will ever know.

Having said that the GM job is the most critical job in any CFL teams structure in my opinion.

That in my opinion is where the West has been vastly superior for a very long time.

I will go even further and say that unless you are Wally Buono or Huff you cannot do both jobs (GM/Head Coach) well in the long term.

This is an organizational structure issue.

If and it's a big if Eric has been exclusively in charge of player personnel it has not worked for the last two years.

If on the other hand he and Kent have been trying to do this cooperatively that does not work. There needs to be a clear change and upgrade in this area asap.

I further suggest that if Kent has or is trying to do both the GM and Head coaching jobs with assistance from Eric it hasn't work.

Hufnagel, Buono and the jury is still out on Jones are extremely rare exceptions but it just hasn't worked in the last two years for Kent.

I think we can all clearly observe that we and all the East teams do not have the same quality of players the team's in the West have. I suggest Toronto, though to late for this year has addressed this area.

The GM's in the West and there scouting staffs have been vastly superior to the East.

Could these things simply be my own perception?

Certainly, but if it were only the Ticats that would be easier to grant given my 50 year loyalty to the team but this has been a remains in my view the biggest discrepancy in the two divisions/league and a major reason for the limited if not decreasing place of the CFL interest and engagement in the Eastern part of the country.

With the rise of major concerns such as CTE , the MLS, millenial attention spans and more we cannot afford to have 60-1 "professional," football games or one half of the entire league unable to compete against the other half.

I sincerely believe we run the risks of half empty stadiums or worse if this continues.

There is hope football wise in Toronto but that may not be enough even with Popp/Trestman.

I believe we need a clear separation of powers between GM and Head Coach whomever they are in Hamilton. Desjardins and Campbell are in trouble and I must admit Montreal is a question mark for me.

Anyway, my two cents,

Rev.

x

Fire Tillman and go get Ed Hervey former GM in Edmonton when they won the grey cup a few years ago.

They made it clear he wasn't fired for his talent at the position but rather disagreement.

Go get him. He knows football. He knows talent.

Rev: Well said sir. Another excellent assessment of the many things wrong with the Tiger-Cats and it’s effects on the league.

Rev- Very very well said. ;D

Well said indeed Rev , it is also interesting to note that the best run , most stable , and probably most profitable franchises presently are all publicly owned and in the west …just sayin.

"I believe we need a clear separation of powers between GM and Head Coach whomever they are in Hamilton. Desjardins and Campbell are in trouble and I must admit Montreal is a question mark for me."

You made some good and interesting points, Rev, and I don't necessarily disagree with you.

However, your premise of separating job positions in Hamilton loses it's luster for me, when you mention the management situations in Ottawa and Montreal.Even Toronto isn't doing that much better.

They all haveindividual GM and head coaching positions, yet Ottawa for winning the cup last season, is only one win better than Hamilton now. And last year went into the playoffswinning 4 gamesbelow.500.

Perhaps, the formula for victory out west is not in the division of management labour, but rather in the delegation and selection of those who serve under them.

Better quality staffs doing more of the workload to lighten things for those above them.

Just a thought....

It seems a lot harder to make everyone happy than it is to p*ss everyone off?

I have learned over my many years on this earth…that you CANNOT please everyone.
That is why perfection is impossible.

We are really bad. Going back the required number of games including the semi final we are 3 and 15 over the last 18.

My: You continue to make excuses for this team. Does it really make you feel better when you keep pointing out that Ottawa has only won one game this year? And “Toronto isn’t doing that much better”. How can you be so short-sighted? The Blue Team’s management looks to have a heck of a brighter future than we do. They are ahead of us in the standings and the coaching staff were only assembled about a month before the pre-season!
Keep your eye on the ball. The Tiger-Cats ARE in bad shape. ALL the other teams in the CFL are better than us! The Caretaker and Scott Mitchell have to fix what’s wrong…their selection of “those who work under them” has obviously not worked. And Austin’s “Hail Mary” patching up scheme with June Jones is not about building for the future.

As a management team, they've lost the room it seems. :frowning:

My though is economics and timing. The East doesn't draw as much bank as the West or have owners that can at this time, invest as much in the team and all the fringe benefits for players, staff, trainers, coaches and scouts. This alone doesn't always prevent a team from being competitive, but it causes players and staff to leave more readily for greener pastures and rebuilds happening more frequently.

Combine that with Montreal rebuilding, Ottawa coming down from punching above their weight (we forget, they got in off a weak east division and have faced mainly Western opponents),Hamilton suffering a personnel crisis due to bad GMing and the Argos having an off field nightmare. It adds up.

Bang on mr62
While some seem to thinks it’s ok because the rest of the east is so poor. I think that many fail to realize that the Cats are 0-7. If they end up 5-13 and make the playoffs. Is that a good season? It’s an embarrassment to the league when a team with a record like that makes the playoffs. This team is terrible there’s no gelling there’s no we’re going to the Grey Cup. There’s only more misery ahead. A proper program needs to be built here. The management we have here are obviously not the ones to do it because the program they’ve built is horrendous.
I will always cheer for the Cats. I’m a season ticket holder. I’m ashamed of the product they’re putting on the field to supposedly entertain me. As a ticat fan this is nothing new though they’ve been mostly bad for the 40+ years I’ve been going.
Changes are needed from the top on down. The culture of the team has gone sour.

“My: You continue to make excuses for this team. Does it really make you feel better when you keep pointing out that Ottawa has only won one game this year? And “Toronto isn’t doing that much better”. How can you be so short-sighted? The Blue Team’s management looks to have a heck of a brighter future than we do. They are ahead of us in the standings and the coaching staff were only assembled about a month before the pre-season!
Keep your eye on the ball. The Tiger-Cats ARE in bad shape. ALL the other teams in the CFL are better than us! The Caretaker and Scott Mitchell have to fix what’s wrong…their selection of “those who work under them” has obviously not worked. And Austin’s “Hail Mary” patching up scheme with June Jones is not about building for the future.”

And you continue to act like the sky is falling.

I was simply responding to the premise that separating the positions of GM and head coach is the answer, and provided my thoughts that it is not necessarily the case. I chose the east because three of the four teams are employing this style and have shown that it is NOT working.

As usual, you read what you want.

The argos are ahead for now. Ray has gone down…AGAIN. How will that play out?? Not sure, but it doesn’t look good. They have an old signal caller who keeps retreating to the sidelines and have no suitable replacement for him. And you think that leads to a brighter future??

Bo Levi Mitchell, one, if not, the best quarterback in this league, gives June Jones a lot of credit for helping him along, and believes that he can assist Zach Collaros to the same degree.

But, I guess, you don’t read that kind of information. After all, it’s not doom and gloom and fits your preconceived notion.

I’m not going to explain the Ottawa statements AGAIN. I’ve stated it so many times and clearly, my children can understand it and they don’t follow football.

I’m disappointed in this season. But I have patience and faith.

My eye is on the ball and has been for the last 40 some years.

Yours could be too. Once the panic and hysteria clears away from your vision.

The biggest issue in Hamilton is the same continuous mistakes have been made with regards to hiring during the Bob Young era. It seems that glitz and glam off field is put first and the on field product comes second and this is what we have now. It seems there is issues in bringing in talent (free agents and new recruits) and retaining the good talent. This team might be one of the least talented I can recall

Myhometeam: After reading your response I can only conclude one of two things:

  • you are related to Kent Austin

  • you unquestionably accept sub-par performance and a rigor mortis style of management

If the first conclusion is true, I will not criticize you any further.
But it seems my second conclusion is more appropriate.

Sports is a business. The Tiger-Cats are a product. The paying fans are customers. Right now the product is faulty just like the 1970's rusty Fords. Where are the sold out crowds at THF this season?

If that's "panic and hysteria" you are certainly are outnumbered by those of us who are simply stating the obvious and demanding a better product. You make no sense to me at all.
Have a nice day.

Habsfan: I think the there could be more to this lack of talent issue you mention.
The Rev also touched on it too when he mentions the other teams (especially in the West) that have the same salary cap as the Tiger-Cats…yet have more talent on the field.
I am wondering how much of the salary cap the Tiger-Cats use? is it less than the other teams? Or is it a salary distribution problem? Have we put too much into paying Zach at the expense of other positions? Is Scott Mitchell trying to operate on the cheap by giving Kent Austin more than one job title? (And why has he had to do the play calling too?) Will it cost too much to get rid of Austin?
I don’t know the answers. But if we are competitive with the other teams when it comes to the salary cap, then the lack of talent (we still have a few excellent players however) rests squarely on Tillman and Austin.
I have purposefully never criticized the Caretaker in any of my posts. He has been the saviour of the Hamilton Tiger-Cats. I think he has been let down by the Football Operations part of his team’s management.

And you must be related to chicken little…
I’m nota kinto Kent Austin. I do support him as a coach.
Once again, you are making assumptions about those you don’t know.
Those who panic rarely, if ever, understand patience. So, your statements don’t surprise me in the least. Your guess that you “think” I’m outnumbered only matters to you. You’re sounding more like a follower than an independent thinker.
Of course, sports is a business, Captain Obvious. Attendance is down, likely because of the losses. You need someone to explain that to you??
Be careful…don’t follow too closely…they may lead you off a cliff!!

I’ve often wondered what it is about being “east” makes it so hard to compete… I mean, each team is its own organization, what’s the root cause of their common struggle?

Is it that it’s from football being a more culturally ingrained sport out west, leading to less boom-and-bust, and therefore being better able to build for long term success? Which then seems to somewhat snowball, good organizations staying good and the struggles containing to struggle?
I could be way off, just thinking out loud…