Vince Young

Yes I think this is jones' s plan , he's laid it all out now, and by the looks of this I honestly think this guy might work out, I guess it,s wait and see now.

Guess we have nothing to lose as long as we don't spend a lot of money on an advance.

I'm not expecting this to amount to a whole lot, if it does then great.....

I'm thinking more in terms of the dynamics during the games where the starting QB is discussing (on the sideline in between series) what the other team's D is doing and how the #2 & #3's can expect to manage that. I don't know how the team operates on the sideline, but that was just my logic. The vet QB can say "this is how I deal with this or that situation" and possibly give them little tips from their experience.

My fear is that Jones is going to give him a bit of preferred treatment. If Young is close, but not quite at par as to what Glenn brings to the table, Young gets the job. Jones has a lot riding on this decision and he will go above and beyond what is best for the organization at the Q.B. spot to give Young more opportunities than would be given to another prospect, IMO.

that is exactly what a QB coach does. It is the reason a lot of people are not fans of the OC being the QB coach as well. A QB coach generally stands with the backups and discusses the plays with the backs a bit during the play and after but predominantly will pull the group aside when the O is not on the field and have a they discuss the series very quickly. that is where the QBs talk about trends they saw and ideas/issues/concerns...big opportunity to mention broken coverage on a play to think about later in the game...which is discussed with the OC especially at half...in modern football the 3rd stringer will timestamp particular instances they want to review and the group can visually see the play on demand. A QB coach is good for this because most QBs get a little tight lipped while processing stuff on the sideline simply because that is often natural to go silent when you are processing stuff and a QB coach can get conversation going which is usually good. They are also in tune enough with the QB to know when to just leave them alone.

There are definitely QBs that are very helpful on the sidelines...but most get somewhat limited because at the end of the day they are still competing for reps. DD is an example of a guy who is not very vocal on the sideline if he is dressed but is great when he is not...Jackson was not a helper at all on the sidelines which is why a lot of people questioned him becoming a QB coach though he seems to be alright at it now that he is not in the mix....Reilly is a QB that will talk a lot with the other QBs during the games...Buris in time became much the same. Point being you can never count on a QB helping out other QBs a whole bunch while the pads are still on and even if they do they can be holding back intentionally or unintentionally...a retired QB standing there is not going to hold back. One of the best QBs for helping others while still having the pads on the Riders have had was Markus Crandel

before the QB coaches came along that vet mentorship was very important...and it is still beneficial but you should be getting more out of an actual coach

the thing that I find interesting with Young development wise in this whole mix that I have not seen/heard mentioned is Brandon Bridge. I have never been sold on Bridge (I still wanted to see Waters) but there are a lot of people who are and they cite how he played in he final game of 2016. Here is the thing though....he and Young are essentially the identical build and have pretty similar attributes...that could be a very interesting dynamic to watch and could be a big thing if Bridge is going to develop. Bridge is a little slower but not a pile...but he has a better release and from my understanding a good wonderlic (Young's was pretty low) which means he might pick up new plays faster. Where knowledge sharing between QBs is nice is when you have someone of similar attributes you are playing beside and likely relate to a bit in that sense.

I say "wanted" on Waters because it sounds like he is leaving for a coaching gig at Iowa State. Wondering if this was further motivation to bring in Young because I know that there was a lot of hope in him moving forward but I also knew there were question marks around how / if he would recover well from his injury. Jones was high on him as was Jackson and as an indicator....Austin, Huf, Tillman, Scott M all liked Waters as well. I think he had a pile of potential.

the thing that bothers me is that VY signed for 1 year plus an option, I would have liked to see a minimum 2 year contract.
if VY shows that his skills are returning will there be enough interest to have VY return to the NFL next year ?
if that is the case, are we back at where we were yesterday, looking for a starting QB ?
or is VY a stopgap measure to wait for James Franklin to become a free agent ?
only time will tell.

Depop your insight as far a Waters goes is to bad as IMO he had a tremendous up side, and possible his injury and the VY talk and signing solidified his decision ?

Bridge, I have always liked but IMO he has the wrong birth certificate, to be given a legitimate shot,
hope I'm wrong on this.

If by chance Young does well and makes the team and starts and even lights it up and by some chance has a season where he shocks everyone and passes for 6000 yards and provides the legs he has in the past and keeps his interception ratio down and heck lets even say he becomes an MOP candidate (just for going with an absolute best case scenario) he is all but done with any chance in the NFL. Age aside, with the way the NFL changed a few years back he is now vetted and has no PR eligibility. That is why he was brought into NFL camps but never made the roster...he would need to go on the gameday rosters from day 1...if he was not vetted he likely would have stuck in the NFL a few years back when he tried a comeback. It is also why he said he would not be interested in the NFL unless there was a 2-3 year guaranteed deal...because that commitment means he is not going to come into a camp only to be released because of his vet status....in other words a team needs to commit to him upon even offering him a spot...doesn't have to be a starter spot...just a spot. So yeah...NFL time is done. That vet status change is something some GMs are FINALLY starting to look at when they are looking at ex-NFLers.

I know I have talked about this on here before and found it surprising that has not evolved quicker as a part of the recruiting strategy. I believe I used Roosevelt as an example...the guy is good enough to be in the NFL but because of his vet status the door likely does not open...which is why picking him up was such a solid move. Same goes for Edwards...5 years vetting approaches and doors close in the NFL now.

I tend to think they still have eyes on Franklin as well...but you can take it to the bank that Trestman will as well.

I doubt that this was the decision maker on Waters. This would have been something that was in talks for a while. As I mentioned...it was a known concern that he might not be back and that has been a concern for pushing 2 months...that is not because of this job but the way he is healing. he may have been on the fence craving to play and knowing that this might be the best move for him and Young may have been the final nudge but it was unlikely the bulk of weighing it out.

thanks for the additional insight Depop.

So why are we wasting yet another year waiting , wait, maybe To get franklin. That would be 2 wasted years that with a decent o line we could have kept durant or been developing a younger guy. We could have just changed a few pieces and kept rolling along, I think they should just forget about franklin and get on with it, forget about these stop gap fixes. I thought jones was the guru.guy. . We need to get back to winning this season or clean the house and start over.

no problem

I still think that even if Young were to get into his peak form there will be woes. He is not really a drop and gun QB…which is actually where Glenn might excel in this O. Young is a guy who seems to excel in extended plays which is not what this O wants to do at all.

Dunk is reporting (yes...I know) there is no signing bonus on VY's contract

[url=http://3downnation.com/2017/03/10/vince-young-contract-doesnt-include-signing-bonus/]http://3downnation.com/2017/03/10/vince ... ing-bonus/[/url]

Honnêtement, je m'imagine mal Young devenir un partant dans cette ligue.

Il n'a pas joué au football depuis 6 ans et il n'a jamais joué au football canadien. Même dans la NFL, il a un ratio de passes complétées de moins de 60%, et je ne crois pas qu'il va améliorer ça à 34 ans, après 6 ans d'inactivité. Tout ce que sa présence va donner, c'est un peu de publicité pour l'équipe et lui aux USA. S'il reste au sein de l'équipe, il prendra du temps d'entraînement aux jeunes quarts-arrières pour un gars qui ne finira peut-être pas la saison.

Je me méfie toujours de ces joueurs qui se présentent dans la LCF en se disant que c'est du football, donc ils savent ce que c'est. Je me souviens de l'ouverture du camp d'entraînement des Alouettes en 2014 où j'ai parlé avec Troy Smith. J'ai pointé ses souliers et je lui ai dit qu'il en avait des très grands à remplir (en parlant de Calvillo). Il m'a fait tout un boniment pour me dire qu'il savait mais qu'il avait beaucoup de bagage de football et que ça allait fonctionner. Je lui ai dit que si c'est ce qu'il pensait, il ne finirait pas la saison. Je lui ai dit de ne pas sous-estimer cette ligue et encore moins la quantité de travail qu'il avait devant lui pour s'y adapter. Il m'a regardé surpris de mes propos et m'a indiqué qu'il travaillait fort. Je lui ai dit que c'était tant mieux, mais que ce n'était pas assez et qu'il le réaliserait un moment donné. Ça a fini par arriver et l'aventure Troy Smith s'est terminée rapidement. Le résultat final : les Alouettes ont perdu un an dans leur recherche d'un quart-arrière d'avenir.

Je ne vois pas la venue de Young comme une façon de relancer cette équipe, même s'il devait s'y tailler un poste. Il sera une recrue qui empêchera de développer une vraie recrue.

while completion percentage is important I don’t have an issue with a roughly 60% NFL passer…Doug Flutie is regarded as one of the best CFL QBs of all time and had a career average of 1% higher overall and 4 or 5 lower than young within th NFL itself. Jeff Garcia did well in both leagues ant was under 62 in each. Peyton Manning is regarded as a premier pocket passer of our time and was a 65% passer while providing essentially nothing for mobility. Even the mighty Tom Brady, probably the best QB of all time, is only around 5% higher at under 64%. You need to realize that there are only like maybe 40 or 50 or so QBs in NFL history (who have actually played real time of say more than 1000 pass attempts) that have completed over 60% in their careers and not a single one…to my knowledge…has averaged 70. IIRC Drew Brees us the most accurate NFL QB of all time an is around 67% I believe.

now when comparing NFL and CFL completion percentages I have always noticed that most QBs go up a couple points in the CFL vs their NFL numbers…perhaps something to do with experience but I have always attributed it a lot to the bigger field giving more room to throw a receiver open. Garcia is an example of a guy who put up similar numbers in both leagues and did it well in both…but most seem to go up a bit from what I have seen. Of course the past couple of years where you draw a flag for looking at a receiver wrong is skewing those numbers up in a massive way…Henry Burris, for example, crushed his career average the past 2 seasons…bigtime…so I would say that couple percent should be 5+ now to translate to a success story…assuming the no touching rules still apply…that is to say Young should be 63-65% or better to really be viewed as a successful transition accuracy wise. But again career wise nobody in the CFL has hit 70 and there are only a few that are 65%+…Ray, Dickenson, Collaros, Willy, Mitchell, Reilly. You will notice that 4 of 6 of those players have thrown most of their passes under the “no touching rules” and one of the best of all time in the CFL in Anthony Calvillo was a 62.4% QB and only broke 70% once.

If a QB generally gains a couple points historically transitioning from the NFL to the CFL and most QBs in the CFL are up 5% or better under new rules then a roughly 60% passer in the NFL…if he has the arm strength for the wider field (big if) he could do good things.

IMO the big concern with Young is TD to INT ratio and INTs/pass rating. Some of that…in fairness…is that a bulk of his career his receivers plain old sucked…put it this way, they were a brutal 4 win team the year before him and were 8-8 with him as a rookie and 10-6 the following year…despite the fact that the ream really truly still did suck…especially the O

I’m not advocating that Young will be a screaming success or even that he will make the team…just pointing out that some of the things you point out I kinda shrug off. Like I said before…he is a QB that finds success in extended plays and that is kinda the exact opposite of what this O aims to do…so that will be a problem likely

Kind of like durant

Exactly. Oh I know how Jones loves his "experiments" or "projects" this though means a potential young qb is being neglected because there is only so much time that can be given to the non starter to get any practice reps. No rock unturned though right guys?

IMO, is that Vince Young's not that accurate of a passer, with the CFL being a pass orientated league, and with his TD to interception ratio it doesn't look good on his part.
57.9% completion ratio, 46 td passes, 51 interceptions in 60 NFL games.
VY also has to deal with a wider field, extra man and motion, none of which he experienced before.
granted he is mobile, 1459 yds in the NFL, which is no small feat for a QB.
the wider field will work to VY scrambling abilities but hinder his passing deficiency's

Yey, I got the same vibe..... Interesting :cowboy:

Well according to the Haters that are anti-Roughrider it won't matter cuz they are claiming he is overweight and hence his scrambling abilities will be non-existent.

Well according to the Haters that are anti-Roughrider it won't matter cuz no matter what the Riders do it's wrong.

Maybe you should start in your own backyard. Plenty of Rider fans who don't think Jones and his crew have accomplished a darn thing.