So they wiped out a play to go back for a review. Maybe the challenge flag was out before the play and missed. Lesson learned for coaches who wait until the last second to drop it, but no we have the CC to take us back in time.
An ugly precedent was set. So much for not being able to challenge after the next play has started.
How much more evidence does the league need that video review is broken beyond repair. There is no fixing this disaster. Eliminate it and rebuild it from scratch, but for right now it MUST GO!!! IT IS KILLING THE GAME!!!
When video review breaks it own rules the system is broken beyond repair. What exactly are we reviewing now? There are no more rules since video review can make it up and change the rules as it goes along.
This moronic system the CFL has put in place has been a disaster from the start, gets worse every season and will one day arbitrarily decide a Grey Cup the way it does with regular season games.
I would rather live with the mistakes of the on field officials if the option is a system that is governed by rules it is not obliged to follow.
The problem here is that there are two seemingly contradictory rules in the rulebook.
RULE 10 - REPLAY SECTION 2 - REPLAY OFFICIAL REVIEW ARTICLE 5 – Outcomes of Reviews
Time will not be put back onto the game clock as a result of a challenge. On the last play of a half, if time runs out during a play that is subsequently reviewed, the half is over, regardless of the result of the review.
RULE 10 - REPLAY SECTION 3 - VIDEO OFFICIAL REVIEWS
The Video Official's role is to quickly fix obvious errors in the moment that are NOT challengeable by replay but are indisputably wrong. These situations will be detected on the broadcast feed or the dedicated “All 24? camera feed.
The Video Official will
Correct timing issues such as when the quarter or games ends, or resetting of the clocks to the correct time when necessary.
In this case, it was the second rule that was used. Why? Because it wasn't the results of the challenge that resulted in the clock being wrong, but the fact that the clock should never have started. So the video official called down to tell the referee that the play didn't count, and that the clock should be reset. Then, and only then, did the challenge process start.
None of that gives any official the right to accept a coaches challenge after the next play has started nor does it give the CC the right to reverse a play because they believe they have video evidence a challenge flag was thrown prior to the next play starting.
The relevant rule would be:
Rule 10 - Replay Section 2 - Replay Official Reviews Article 4 - Initiating a Review
There are three ways to initiate a review:
[ol]- Team Challenges
Replay Official Initiated Reviews[/ol]
[ol]- Team Challenges: Must be initiated by Head Coach by throwing a challenge flag prior to the next legal snap or within 30 seconds of the start of any TV commercial timeout. It is the responsibility of the coach to get the attention of the nearest official and to throw his challenge flag.[/ol]
It is the responsibility of the coach to get the attention of the nearest official. Yes Campbell did try to get their attention but he did not get their attention and the rule is clear as to who's responsibility that is. Nowhere does it allow the CC to go back to accept a challenge after another play has been run.
The CC ignored the rules and allowed a challenge after a play had been run. How can the CC be expected to correct incorrect rulings on the field when they ignore rules they don't want to adhere to? If an on field official deliberately allowed a rules violation in a game he would be fired. The video review official should be fired for this, but he won't because the league doesn't appear to give a damn when it comes to the video review official. What's one more screw up for a guy that makes one almost every week.
No, when a system breaks it's own rules, then those overseeing it are an issue, not the system by default. Clarity via training, or more realistically and spoken on a lot, canning a couple people, does seem to be the logical next step.
The rule you're saying they violated was in allowing the challenge to go ahead even though the coach had not gotten the attention of the nearest official as required by the rules. But he did get the attention of another official - the video official. And perhaps that's enough?
Agreed. Or at least providing those people with better guidance, a more complete set of accepted rulings.
I wonder if the referee had the authority to say no to allowing the challenge to proceed, on the grounds that the sideline official hadn't noticed the flag being thrown.
I agree Campbell did try to get their attention, but he didn't and there is nothing in the rules that I see that allows video review to change that after a play has been run. By the logic used last night video review could order a coaches challenge 2, 3 or even 10 plays after because they noticed a challenge flag before the snap. The rule is clear and video review violated that rule. That is a MAJOR problem.
When I say kill video review I don't mean forever. Video review is here to stay and does serve a valuable purpose, but the current system is so broken and those that administer it so incompetent and now don't even abide by their own rules it is beyond repair. The only way I see to fix it is to destroy it and rebuild it from scratch. Otherwise we are just putting a bandage on the problem and it will just get worse.
The league made a significant stride with the changes to coaches challenges. Now it's time to fix the system itself and that is not going to be accomplished by a few minor tweaks.
So you do not think that the given Ref perhaps could check to see if there is a late flag 1.5 seconds before the play goes off. But oh no, keep debating the issue and then spin the wheel on it. On to the next game in Regina to see what happens there.
On the other hand - perhaps Head Coach throw his flag at least 2.5 sec. before the play goes off. This within a half a second or whatever should be the coaches fault on late flag. The next play goes off (an excellent play) and it gets called back - this in itself has to stop and no one wants this ignorance to happen in the Championship game.
Officials have important duties prior to snap, especially the Referee and Umpire. They're supposed to be watching the O line for early movement so asking them to turn theirgaze to the bench(s) at a critical juncture (and trying to figure out who's got thechallenge flag)simply isn't feasible. Also, how does the R know exactly when the snap is going to take place?
Here's a thought. How about the coaches not waiting until the last second to throw a piece of fabric less than a foot square hoping someone will spot it? And if the play is in the other end from where they are, throwing that tiny flag even earlier?
All I was trying to say is what you just said - there should be a timeframe limit for the HC throwing the challenge flag, instead of the half second BS. Rest of the what if this, what if that, is just bla bla bla. And on some last second challenges overturned, their next play backfires and results in chaos.
And had video review not overstepped their authority then a clear message would have been sent to all coaches about the danger of waiting too long to throw the challenge. Instead the precedent has now been set giving coaches the right to wait even longer. As long as that flag is dropped before the snap and a camera shows it the idiots Thursday night have set the standard where more plays will be wiped out due to a "missed" challenge flag.
In a season with so many good games in the first half of the season, the on field official doing a very good job and many many highlight plays, why are we stuck talking yet again about a moronic decision by video review.
Fire the video review official, eliminate video review and rebuild it from the ground up for next year. Right now it is broken beyond repair.
It was a one-time incident that can be clarified (probably already has or shortly will be) with ALL officials and coaches - it does not indicate some catastrophic breakage of video review. Clarify the rules and move on - don't have a nervous breakdown.
Where have you been? This was not a "one-time incident", this was one incident in a long line of many bad calls, blown calls, controversial calls and outright incorrect calls that video review has made since it's inception.
Secondly, when an on field official applies a rule incorrectly they get fired. Why should video review be any different. The video review official allowed a coaches challenge after a play had been run contrary to the rules. That IS a "catastrophic breakage of video review". I would call that a "catastrophic breakage" of any system that was in place to enforce and uphold the rules but instead breaks the rules itself.
Do you want games played within the rules and decided by the players or played as video review sees fit on that particular day and decided by which rules they decide to apply and which they decide to ignore/break.
I can see it now, a team has too many men on the field at the end of the game and no time outs, the coach is screaming for a player to get off the field as the other team is lining up for a long game winning FG. So the coach throws a challenge flag 1 second before the snap to avoid a penalty, the FG is good and the winning team is celebrating the win, the fans are going nuts, but hold on, there is a challenge flag thrown on the field.
What I am trying to say is that if there is a way of abusing a replay rule for an advantage, the Coaches will find a way to use it(abuse it) to their advantage.
Here is a question
So when is a flag officially thrown if we are down to 1 second before the next play and need hi def slomo freeze frame to establish throwing of the challenge flag?
Is it when it lands?
Is it when it is first pulled from his pocket?
Is it when it leaves his hand?
Is it intent to throw?
I agree with Moses, once a play has started it is too late for a challenge, it is on the Coaches to throw it in due time.
The people in the video control room blew this one again!
This is not the first time that they have broken the rules
Toronto at Montreal Aug 11th.
4:06 left in the 4th Quarter Refs rule a fumble by Toronto QB Recovered by Toronto QB for a loss of yardage.
Just before the ball is snapped...the whistle is blown and says it should have been ruled an incomplete pass.
The video review judge overruled the call when he had no business doing so
Commentator confirmed that this is what happened
RULE 10 - REPLAY SECTION 3 - VIDEO OFFICIAL REVIEWS
The Video Official's role is to quickly fix obvious errors in the moment that are NOT challengeable by replay but are indisputably wrong
That play was challengeable so the review judge saved Toronto a challenge by overruling a call that he should not have.
It indirectly cost Mtl a challenge because our idiot coach then challenged it (as if the review judge was going to overturn himself)
But...the clock was running all this time down to 3:32....so why then did they not put the time back on the clock as it was ruled incomplete and the clock should have stopped? F.U.B.A.R. from start to finish
Thank you for making my point. The incident this week was not an isolated incident nor is it the only way video review breaks the rules.
Further proof it's broken beyond repair. It is bad enough it deserves the unusual action of mid season changes, in this case removal from the game. There is enough time to rebuild it and bring it back for next season but it must be taken out of the game now before some idiot in a video room decides a playoff game.
I agree with what is said by dcm and Grover - waiting to the last second before a play goes off is a total farse. The players must be somewhat pissed off with all this as well, a decent play ruined by a late ignorant coaches yellow flag.