TURF WARS---- National Post

So I'm having the National Post delivered for free for a month, and Today the front page starts a five day series

"Does a Toronto billionaire's NFL dream threaten the survival of Canadian football"

I'm surprised no-one has picked up on this yet on this site since we're certainly going to be influenced/involved in this as time goes by.

If the old adage of follow the money is a forecaster of things to come, then stats cited such as Salary cap $116million vs our $4.2million and minimum salary cap of $98.8 million

TV revenue is $3.7 Billion while in Canada the CFL makes $16million.

Hope you get a chance to read the series.

Sometimes i wish we could just trade Toronto to the USA for some decent sized USA city that would be happy to have any pro football team, whether it be CFL or NFL. I don't think Buffalo will let their football team come up here, even if they do have to consider community ownership. Believe me, Roger Goodell would rather have that team in Buffalo than Toronto. The NFL's economics are all about American TV deals. So the NFL team will have to hold off for atleast another 10 years i think. It would be nice to get some insurance in a stable ottawa team or a stable team in the mari-times, then we can continue with our 8 team league. I personally think Hamilton would benefit if it did happen, because they would have a strangle hold over the CFL market in southern Ontario.

A cultural icon at stake

Sean Fitz-Gerald, National Post

Published: Friday, June 13, 2008

click here

It's too bad John Tory went into politics

Now the CFL has this guy to deal with.

"Phil Lind enjoys the National Football League,
occasionally in a manner most other fans cannot."

Mr. Lind, vice-chairman of Rogers Communications Inc.,

watches games in two NFL cities
on the same Sunday afternoon.

He drives from his Toronto home
to Orchard Park, N.Y., to watch
the first half of a Buffalo Bills game.

Around halftime, he drives three-hour west to Cleveland,

to watch the second half of a late-afternoon game
featuring his beloved Browns, from the season tickets
he holds on the 35-yard line, 10 rows off the field.

"I like the NFL, I like it better," he said.

"And so do most people in Toronto - like the NFL better."

Thanks, Ron.

Will you link the other 4 articles in the 5 part series.

To bad we cannot see the bar graphs in the article.

I'm saving the articles for 10 years to see how things turn out.

Sort of like going to a doctor or dentist's office and reading Time or Macleans 4 months later and seeing "news " in retrospect. :twisted:

Toronto and Montreal are the only cities in Canada large enough to really support an NFL team anyway. The whole of the CFL need not worry. Ottawa has already been granted a new team and if Toronto (or even Montreal) was out of the picture in the CFL then there would be that much more of a reason to go east.

Mark Cohn also has some great plans to help Canadian football at the roots/youth level. The place it needs the most help also.

I'm not worried about the NFL hurting the CFL because I have faith in the true CFL fans around Canada.

I was listening to Bobby Ackles on a talk show before the Lions game Friday and he feels very threatned by the NFL. He describes it as a couple of good old boys in Toronto with too much money who think everybody is excited about the games coming to Toronto. When the truth is no one in western Cananda cares about the NFL in Toronto.

The national post is a joke, there's no way I'll waste my time to read any of these articles.

I used to kind of feal threatened by the NFL, that was till I found out Rogers basically had to beg for this one game a year and had to resort to severely over paying to the point where he'll probably lose 5 mil per game in the long run. It's going to end in disaster for rogers.

Rogers is a spoiled brat who owns a garbage corporation who is allowed to monopolize the market because he has no competition and this pointless experiment of his will make him out to look like the fool he is. He's probably the joke among NFL owners.

Wow!... Tell us how you really feel!

In addition, any NFL team will need a brand new billion dollar stadium, Rogers Centre is 9,000 seats smaller than the smallest current NFL Stadium. And after Rogers was practically given Skydome, he'll have to pay for it himself. It ought to be in the criminal code... we retain the right to limit free stadiums given to each Billionaire :smiley:

A billion for the Bills and another billion for a stadium... that's a lot of money even for Rogers. IMO the only way NFL in Toronto is possible is if TO gets the Olympics and the taxpayers build an 75,000 seat stadium.

Most new new Stadiums are 80,000 Seats and Above .. The new one in Dallas dose 80,000 Seats + Corporate 200 Boxes Installed Cost for Dallas Stadium is 270 million US.
But Still That a Ton Of Money ..

I'm pretty sure it'll be a lot more than 270 million. This article in the Dallas Morning News says $1.1 billion for the new Cowboys stadium

[url=http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/stories/053108dnmetstadium.43152dae.html]http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent ... 52dae.html[/url]

This New York Times article estimates the cost of the new Giants/Jets stadium at $1.6 billion

[url=http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/22/sports/football/22seat.html?_r=1&scp=2&sq=new+giants+stadium&st=nyt&oref=slogin]http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/22/sport ... ref=slogin[/url]

Two more of the National Post articles

on the NFL threat to the CFL

Why Toronto will land an NFL
franchise in the near future

Sean Fitz-Gerald, National Post
Published: Saturday, June 14, 2008

click here

Why Toronto will not land an NFL
franchise in the near future

Sean Fitz-Gerald, National Post
Published: Saturday, June 14, 2008

click here

Links to other articles
are below each article.

Which is it?

Toronto will land it's own team
within the next 5 years because

Toronto is simply too big, too
rich and too capable a market

for the N.F.L. to ignore much longer,

and Canadians still account for up to
20% of the crowd at Bills games.

Buffalo is ecomomically on shaky ground.

Toronto can charge more for tickets,
corporate suites, personal seat licences

and, when the time comes, to build a new stadium.


When the Buffalo Bills land on the auction block,
the interested consortium from Toronto

should not worry about competing bids
from Western New York.

It should worry about competing bids
from every corner of the United States,

and every single billionaire who
might be looking for the chance

to join what might be
the world's most exclusive club.

There is also the matter of the CFL,
which will manage to stifle the process

by successfully invoking its status
as a Canadian cultural institution
deserving of protection.

And it is not like Buffalo will
simply offer up its football team....

Charles Schumer and Hillary Clinton
-- U. S. Senators representing New York --

will make themselves heard.

The CFL's homegrown saviours

Lorne Gunter, National Post
Published: Monday, June 16, 2008

click here

'..for the CFL to survive, it must offer
something the NFL never can --

a connection with Canadian
sporting fans' souls.

In that regard, two men hold more of the league's fate
in their hands than probably even they realize:

Hamilton Tiger-Cat running back Jesse Lumsden
and TSN president Phil King.'

Here are my reasons why there won't be a team in Toronto:

  • Roger Goodell is a Western NY guy with a lot of roots there. I doubt he wants to be the guy that moves them.

  • Although the Canadian dollar is strong now. What happens when it decreases? That could mean 10, 20, 40 points per dollar in lost revenue for the NFL.

  • Does the NFL in Toronto bring in that much of an increase in extra viewership?

-The Bills now have territorial in Toronto. So if the Bills stay no other team could come in.

  • The NFL currently forbids large ownership groups or publicly-traded corporations from purchasing NFL teams. This policy allows the league office to deal with individual owners instead of boards of directors, although the Packers' ownership group was grandfathered into the current policy. One owner must have 51% of the team. No 30-30-30 split, etc.

  • The NFL also forbids its majority owners from owning any sports teams (except for soccer teams and Arena Football League teams) in NFL cities, and prohibits owners from investing in casinos or being otherwise involved in gambling operations. i.e. Blue Jays, Raptors, Leafs.

  • What if the Bills in TO don't sell out or have have significant corporate support? Doesn't look good for their argument to have a team.

  • There are 5 - 10 locations in the U.S. that would aggressively pursue a team especially LA.

  • many more but that should be enough for now.

p.s. Sean Fitz does a pretty poor job of explaining why and why not Toronto would get a team. Not much detail invovled in those pieces.

In all honesty -- outside of our web forums, the globe and post, I'm not getting the sense that there's a ton of traction for this thing anyway.

A lot of the guys I talk to on a regular basis (most of whom watch both NFL and CFL, and make the odd trek to the Ralph) would prefer the game in Buffalo...and don't really care about the game in Toronto.

I think 'ticket brokers' are making up a lot of the demand for these tickets...I don't want the NFL here at all...but, the more I hear and read about it, the less it worries me.


Not exactly true. Of the ten facilities opened since 2000, the smallest is 63,000 seats, the largest is 76,000 seats and nine of the ten are under 70,00 seats.

Yes, the ones being built in Dallas and New York get all the media attention, but they're the exception not the rule. Those are the two premier cities in the league and the stadium in New York is for two teams.


Not that this adds much to the main discussion, but I keep hearing this argument made so I thought I'd go look.

drexl wrote: “The national post is a joke, there’s no way I’ll waste my time to read any of these articles.”

drexl: get your head out of the sand.
Read the stuff. Think. Debate the issue with knowledge. Other opinions matter.
Ted Rogers can do what he wants but I don’t think Western New York politicians and businesses will let the Bills move no matter how bad the economic situation is in Buffalo. The NFL, with all of its billions, will step in and help with such things as giving the Bills a more entertaining schedule. Then the “southern Ontario Bills fans” and those in the Buffalo area will get to see better teams play without having to experience the traffic gridlock and horrendous parking that plagues Toronto. However the Bills will have to be competitive.
Its important to have this debate. Others who are more enlightened than drexl will be glad to read the stuff. That will get the NFL/CFL issue out to the general public so when the time comes as many people as possible can have their say. It could very well become a political issue here too so the level of support will be crucial.
But first we all need to think everything through and know what we are up against.
Ted Rogers…the Rogers Centre…do we want 'ol Ted to control ALL the football we see here? Not me.