Trends.........are they real or imagined?

I was listening to the 5th quarter on 900 CHML after the Argo game and it was mentioned that since 1995, and including the loss the other night, we are 2 wins - 22 losses before August. (games in June and July)

Is there something to this or is it just a wierd anomaly that means nothing ?

It a testiment to our talent evaluation scouting and coaching preperation under a miriad of poor GMs. Sad, very very very sad. I was hoping Obie wasn't just another public relations hire but its not a positive first impression

Well, I've got a lot of theories myself which definately include your thoughts.

I had a discussion with a client today who had Ticats stuff on her office walls and she said that she feels the Ticats made a critical mistake in getting rid of Head Coach Greg Marshall when it was a given that the team needed a good 4-5 years to be a powerhouse. By now Greg would have been a well seasoned CFL Coach and no way would he have had 3-15 seasons like we've had. As it is now, we're worse off than in the year Bob Young took over and only because everyone demands a miracle Grey Cup appearance every year. It was never going to happen in the first 3-4 years ...but by now?......yes, we could have been there if it wasn't for the dismantling of the team and coaching staff every year as it seems.

So yes, I agree with your post.

I'm hoping the team has learned it's lesson and will now build a powerhouse one piece at a time until we get there.....even if it takes 2-3 years going forward.

What? That is the biggest straw man argument ever. We don’t know if we would have been better or not, AND we were on the decline while Marshall was the head coach.

Also, that statistic doesn’t make a lot of sense. Perhaps since 2005?

There was nothing wrong with firing Greg Marshall.

Bob Young's crucial mistake was putting Rob Katz in the interim GM role. Bob himself has remarked that perhaps his greatest misfortune is that the team didn't have a worse record his first year as the owner to shed light on just how bad the team really was at the time. Under Katz, a bad talent and salary situation got worse. Katz's primary mandate was to identify the best candidate to replace himself as GM on a permanent basis. The GM candidate eventually selected was Marcel Desjardins, and by the time he was hired, the team was a complete mess. The club eventually decided Marcel was the wrong guy, which means the rudderless years squandered during the search for him were a complete waste of everyone's time. The lack of strong football operations management during Bob's first few years helped dig the team into a huge hole talent-wise. Marcel started the cleanup job, and got a lot of flack for making difficult decisions that shouldn't have been required of him had the team been run competently prior to his arrival. Obie is continuing the clean-up job.

I beg to differ......Coach Marshall and GM Rob Katz were on to something good.......sadly, they weren't allowed to finish the plan........the results have shown in spades.........total crap and total failure !..........if Rob Katz was GM and Greg Marshall was Head Coach the past three years, does anyone honestly think we'd be in the spot we are now ?......Bob Young's basic mistake was to mis-trust his own instincts......he was right from the get-go.......

No, we wouldn't be in the spot we are now. We'd be winless in 3 years, over the cap, and be stocked with zero young talent and a bunch of overpaid, washed-up castoffs from other teams, none of whom would have any respect for Marshall and his blustering coaching style.

Edit: At least the sentimentalists would be happy, as Morreale and Hitchcock would still be starting for us.

Well, we may differ on our thoughts on the occurances of the past 5 years but the good news is that I think if we stick with the plan this time, we should be a strong team by next year if we develop the talent we have slowly but surely and don't panic. Gutting the team of coaches and players for a quick fix just doesn't work as we all know.

An upset in BC this coming Friday would be a great boost to this team right about now. I think we can do it.

2003 Fourth 18 1 17 0 0 293 583 2
2004 Third 18 9 8 1 0 455 542 19

Wow we declined from 1 win 17 losses to 9 wins 8 losses 1 tie. I hope we can decline like that again We might get all the way dow to 12 wins :roll:

I believe it was 2005 not 1995.

ooops.

Good catch.

thanks :oops:

Bob Young inherited a team that was 2nd rate, saftyblitz

and Ron Lancaster, who was briefly Bob's first G.M.
should have been bringing in lots of better players

but, either he didn't have the contacts stateside,
or he was too loyal to players who played for him

so he was quietly assigned new duties with the team.

Rob Katz took over and brought in
high priced former all star veterans.

When Desjardins got here, IMO, his first priorities
should have been keeping the best players we had,

adding top notch prospects and a play off spot

whether overpaid for players or not.

Marcel dumped players with high salaries
and all he could find to replace them

were 2nd rate imports nowhere near CFL-ready.

Most of us gave Marcel flack for that.

Here are my opinions on what Obie has done.

To respond:

These were our results in the Greg Marshall era (credit OskiOuiOui's blog)

2004 9-8-1 / 0-1
2005 5-13
2006 0-4

Let us use this to demonstrate a decline. We had a spike in standings in 2004 after our 1-18 season in 2003. If you recall, we won the first several games out of the gate on the arm of Danny McManus and the hands of Demetrius Breedlove. Once they slowed down, the shoddy defense and lacklustre offense combined for disappointment in what remained of the season.

2005 was supposed to be an improvement, but we faltered out of the gate and only managed to win 5 games.

5 games.

Now, in 2006 we went out and got ourselves Josh Ranek (whose career ended here), George Hudson, Ray Mariuz and we traded for that RB from Regina. In other words we had a talent upgrade.

0-4.

Now, that is not to say it is ENTIRELY Marshall's fault. Indeed, he was marred by poor coordinators (Kavis and Jamie then PaoPao) and a damaged goods quarterback later on.

However, Marshall continued with said damaged goods quarterback, hired all of his assistants (with the exception of paopao, the nail in the coffin) and was ultimately responsible for the day-to-day operations of this football team.

Under his reign common complaints were: lack of discipline, country club atmosphere, and a general lack of professionalism.

Having destroyed your argument I will conclude by precluding your rebuttal, which will probably be something along the lines of Ron Lancaster. Allow me to intercede on this point by saying that if Ron Lancaster was a problem (which he wasn't, but I don't want to get into it. I know someone will eventually bring it up.) that would suggest a general lack of control by Katz et al over this football club, which would point to a reality contrary to your little conspiracy theory.

Finally: I don't think anyone with a memory that can span more than a few years would conclude the team was by any means in "good shape" when Marshall was fired. In fact, most people were calling for his head, people who had been defending him for two years previous (myself included). He had lost the team, he had lost his talent, and he had lost his ability to win football games at the CFL level. That is what ended his tenure here.

When Desjardins got here, IMO, his first priorities should have been keeping the best players we had
Yes, I agree with this in retrospect. I believe a serious mistake was to remove veteran leadership also ie: Morreale and Hitch

I don’t think Greg Marshall ever really got a chance to coach a team with a legitimate starting QB. Danny Mac was at the end, Marcus Brady (Lancaster’s mistake) wasn’t up to the task, and no more need be said about the Jason Maas fiasco. I often wonder how things would have gone had Hamilton chosen Kerry Joseph in the Ottawa dispersal draft and let him run the team. I hate to speak ill of he dead, but I blame Lancaster for the team’s decline. He resented being replaced as coach and never gave his replacement the tools to succeed.

Called it.

I agree it was a huge mistake getting rid of Marshall. He had the potential to be a great CFL couch. He just needed some time and some experience around him. He's proven how great a coach he is with what he has done with Western's program in such a short period of time.
Oh well, I'm sure he is laughing now. He's better off in the comfort of Western than in the CFL.

Putting this in perspective:

What if Coach B went 5-13 this season and then next season we started 0-4? Would it then be okay to fire him? He has very similar college credentials to Marshall, so I don't see how -- by your logic -- we could get away with such a travesty.

Honeslty, I don't know if MB should be our coach now.

Obie said after he fired Taffe and put the interim tag on MB, he was going to wait until after the season to interview people. Then after he saw what MB was doing, he made him the head coach.

MB had no pressure on him and was able to coach free. Now he has the pressure on him and we have to see how he performs.

I think at this point, you have to stick with MB for at least 2 full seasons. You fire him at the end of this year and you are having guys working on another new system.

If you fire him sometime into next season, you are basically writing the season off and looking for another candidate.

We need consistency here in Hamilton. We have none of it. We have a huge player turnover year after year. We have coaching turnover year after year. All we have consistency in is losing.

I want to see a winner here. We as fans deserve it. If MB is not the guy, get rid of him now and get who you want and stick with them.

As much as everyone hated Taffe, I actually like him. I don't think he got a fair shot here. We hired him late and all of the good coordinators were gone. In his second year, it was Obie who brought him back and hired his coordinators.

Taffe has Maas and Printers. He had MB as OC. He had new players every week. How can you really coach like that?

No-one speaks of this much but along with the Marshall firing, we lost three pretty good coaches in my opinion.

Mark Murray (O-Line)

Paul LaPolice (Receivers)

Dennis McPhee (D-Line)

I also agree with those who think the hiring of Joe Paopao as the O-Co-ordinator and being forced on Marshall was just wrong on so many levels. Marshall didn't stand a chance after that, in my opinion.