...I'm going to preface this by saying this isn't meant to be seen as trolling, I'm not looking to stir the pot here, and rather than post the topic in the main forum I chose to do so here because I wanted to hear what the EE fans think of this rather than the whole lil' rascals gang...
...RR appears to have lost his heart, and can you blame the guy?...it's been a couple of years of tough sledding and maybe that heart just isn't into dragging on a green and gold jersey week of week...would life be so tough without him as your franchise player?...you survived the Gretzky trade and as much as it shocked look at the end result, an Oiler team that arguably was better than before and won another cup...so in the end, was it so bad?...could the same thing happen with trading Ricky Ray, right now, in the next week?...
...if you agree that packaging a trade with RR as the jewel is good for the EEs, then you're in Tillman's seat, where do you see sending him, and what do you want in return?
...and if you think trading RR is totally insane I'd like to know why as well....thanks
I'll start, **to Toronto - QB Ricky Ray **to Edmonton - QB Dalton Bell, LB Tristan Black - Reasoning: Season is toast so play the rest of it with Maas/Zabransky/Bell in rotation, next year it's training camp wars between Zabransky/Bell for #1, Black did a fairly decent job here in Calgary last year and the EEs are dead last in run stoppage. The EEs pick up some big time cap room that Tillman can use in the off season with FA acquisitions.
I’m a long time Edmonton follower.
Yes I would trade Ray. I’d be satisfied with a 1st and 3 draft pick and an NI offensive lineman. I’d be willing to negotiate a player on the teams neg list as well.
I would only trade him for NI players except the neg list.
I believe Ray should leave for both his and the team’s own growth. He’s lost whatever minimal fire he’s had. But he could still benefit another squad perhaps.
The Idea I think is a bit premature... Tillman has already said basically that Ray will be Starter next year and he wants to protect him, meaning improving the O-Line and getting better support players.
Red and Flag bring up interesting points. It does look like Ricky Ray has lost a step. The last five years have been absolutely brutal. So maybe starting over completely is a good idea.
That said, Ray is still an all-star capable of putting up serious numbers. When you look at all the end zone drops this year, he should really have double digit TDs already. So it's kind of hard to let go of him.
If we did trade him, I'd want a lot back. A couple picks, one of which would have to be a first rounder. A couple solid players (preferably Canadian).
Ya Chief it is a tough call…but the opportunity is now.
I see only 3 possible teams…
Toronto, Hamilton and in a long shot BC ( I think they cut Printers at seasons end)
The chance to get some good Canadians and change the face of this squad to reflect some energy at the helm is necessary. But I guess Tillman has to be convinced that their QB back-ups can weather the storm next year. I like Zabransky a lot but it could be that I’m just so weary of watching Ray’s lack of emotion. I personally think the whole team has fed off of that style for the past 3-4 years.
While I’m at it if I was Tillman I’d look hard at getting Dickenson here along with Stubler in senior coaching positions.
BC might not be as long a shot as you think. . . after all, you have to consider a trade scenario whereby instead of relying on Maas and/or Zabransky, a QB is part of the package coming the other way. As in, BC might include Printers in any deal for Ray. . . just thinking out loud.
I think Eric Tillman would rather see a 60 minutes investigative team at his front door wanting a story rather than have Casey Printers within 500 miles from home.
...I don't think you want to enact a trade within your own division, especially for Printers...either QB has the ability to burn you three to four times a year...Toronto or Hamilton would make better sense IMO....
My point is that Tillman wouldn’t want printers in my opinion.
i think that sentiment of not trading in your own division is old school at best and not that applicable in CFL. Why trade a guy if you are afraid he’ll beat you. I know its a common refrain but I don’t buy it especially in the CFL where teams all play each other multiple times. Trade for best value.
Reid trades McNabb to Washington because it was the best offer and again don’t trade if you are afraid of him beating you.
But at any rate I don’t think anyone in the west would be interested except maybe BC if they got rid of Printers. But Printers and Edmonton would be a disaster I think. He’s a very unaccountable fella. accountability has always been paramount in Edmonton from your QB’s down through the ages.
In these current times of severe quarterback shortages for even mediocre play, you don't trade a great quarterback who is in a slump not just on his own sake for a crapshoot from somewhere else.
Anyone else want to try a Cleo Lemon experiment though I don't see him as harshly as do some with a 62% completion percentage, strong arm, and 83QB rating? That's respectable for your first year in any league, but no thanks though statistically better than Ray now.
Ray stays at least one more season I say.
In the rest of the league for consistency there are only Calvillo and Burris.
Calvillo happens to have a backup in McPherson who is every bit capable as a starter, so I don't think McPherson will be hanging around past this season given the demand out there.
Right now a mediocre quarterback still with upside, and more importantly not much farther downside if at all, in the current climate of shortage at the position is better than two unproven ones with high hopes on their potential as usual.
Here are two previous threads with plenty of feedback along these lines not just from me as far as the slim pickings out there:
[quote=““Paolo X””]
In these current times of severe quarterback shortages for even mediocre play, you don’t trade a great quarterback who is in a slump not just on his own sake for a crapshoot from somewhere else. Anyone else want to try a Cleo Lemon experiment though I don’t see him as harshly as do some with a 62% completion percentage, strong arm, and 83QB rating? That’s respectable for your first year in any league, but no thanks though statistically better than Ray now. Ray stays at least one more season I say.
[/quote]
X2 :thup: Rick Ray stays an Eskie.
Has RR lost a step, or has he been unable to find a rhythm thanks to a swiss cheese/turnstile OLine?
to play the 'what if' scenario...
Not to a divisional rival, UNLESS what was coming back was heavy in NI and/or starters
Only if a true starting QB could be put in... and who would that be? Not Maas, Not Zab... so a newbie? Huge risk so it would have to be someone with skills and capability
But even so, count me amongst those who don't see this as a good idea. Calvillio suffered through some poor seasons when he was with poor teams, yet he ended up doing quite well once he got to a stable team.
While RR's struggles may be amplified by the team's poor play, I also think that his success is amplified by building a solid team around him. And I don't think that's something you just let go.
Ray's proven to be the major factor for winning a number of games in the past, I'd rather keep him. I don't believe any QB would be successful with the protection we provide or the ridiculous system Strasser employ's.
However I would accept trading him for say 3 starters, not draft picks unless they were sure to be productive in the very near future, more draft guys to run down punts ain't gonna solve our problem's in the trenches on both sides of the ball.
I agree Chief, but trading for picks does not mean there will be that special talent available either during that draft season or at the time the picks come up during that draft.
While we’re throwing out ideas: What would you all think of Blake Nill as a pro coach? I kind of like the idea even though I realize amateur coach’s seem to under perform in our league, for example Maciocia was/is a very effective amateur coach.
No, nothing is guaranteed in the draft. However, what this team needs is Canadian depth and a better O-Line, and we can get that through the draft. We can trade for the occasional player (Mann for Thompson wasn’t bad), but I’d rather see us develop our own guys instead of grabbing players from other teams… or signing anyone Montreal releases.
I might be in a minority of EE fans, but it seems to me as recently as LD last year he was putting up wins for us, we've only had 2 other full seasons under .500 (2006 and 2007) with him as the starter, plus the second half of 09. In 06 and 07, DM was gutting the team of veterans and destroying its foundations. My memories of sitting in Commonwealth (I attended just about every game between 05 and 09 was a ST holder between 07 and 09) was that many of our home wins came on final winning drives led by Ray throwing or even running for first downs in those two brutal years. In the second half of 09, we had a new OC (by concidence, the guy we have now!), little continuity on offense or defense, and our record tanked. I'm with those who think that Ray would help other teams beat us even more than we get beat now, if he were traded and donned the jersey of another team. Give him some combo of Rambo, Simon, Bruce, Stala, Cahoon, Watkins, Fantuz, Dressler, etc etc ie a recieving corps of another team, and with a consistent O-line, and Ray would be having another 5,000 yard passing season instead of a poor TDINT ratio. two wins, and likely some hidden injuries he hasn't reported (it does take heart to go back into that huddle series after series knowing the pressure is coming no matter what play you run) from being killed on every play.
I don't believe the Esks' problem is at QB. The Oline needs to be upgraded to protect Ray, and a couple of good Canadian receivers... Stamps is a big play guy, and Campbell, when he does catch the ball can be a gamebreaker.. what Ray needs is a couple of receivers to keep drives going.. possession receivers. A good Oline will make the running game better as well. It wouldn't be a smart move to trade RR just for the sake of trading him... some of the best trades are the ones you don't make, and that is the case here.
