Touchdown Atlantic just the start??

The CFL game this coming September between the Toronto Argo's and the Edmonton Eskimos will be just the start hopefully of a couple of new teams added to the CFL at least by 2012 with Moncton and Ottawa. The following is from Wikpedia. Moncton is by far the best choice in the Atlantic area besides Halifax, it would be great to eventually see a team in Halifax but the local politicians in New Brunswick are definitely making a good effort at getting a CFL team by the building of this new stadium, it's only the start in what could be a coast to coast CFL league one day.

The New Moncton Stadium (tentative name) is an athletics stadium currently being built on the campus of the Université de Moncton in Moncton, New Brunswick for the upcoming 2010 World Junior Championships in Athletics.[2] The $17 million dollar venue will open in 2010. Although seating capacity has fluctuated with each media report (original plans called for as many as 28,000 seats), the stadium has been reported as planned to have as many as 10,000 permanent seats, with planned capability to add up to 10,000 additional spectators via temporary seating.[1]

The facility has also been proposed as a potential venue for a future Canadian Football League (CFL) expansion team, but a significant expansion to 25,000 seats would be recommended (though not necessarily required, since the Montreal Alouettes currently play in a stadium that houses only 20,000). CFL Commissioner Mark Cohon has said he would like to see "neutral-site" regular season games played in the New Moncton Stadium by 2010.[3] On Feb. 1, 2010, it was announced that the Toronto Argonauts would play host to the Edmonton Eskimos in an event dubbed "Touchdown Atlantic" to take place on Sept. 26, 2010

Moncton is to the East as Regina is to the West :thup: add Quebec and its Complete_ (in Canada :wink: )

obviously everyone wants there to be more CFL teams (expecially me since there is a better chance of getting drafted then). my main concern is 10, 000 perminant seats for Moncton seems to be a good number for the local area because the city population is only 126,424 (132,849 in the county)...i would find it hard to see 20, 000 people coming out on a regular basis to games.... this is obviously the problem with Haflix.

I think that Halifax is a much better choice because the population is 372,679 (about x3 of Moncton)

But also consider that more people live within 3 hrs commute from Moncton than Halifax.

so i looked up a bunch of the populations and checked mapquest to create a 3 hour car ride bubble from Moncton. Apparently, you can drive almost anywhere up the coast, and inland to about Bath area in NB in under 3 hours. So you would be correct in say that there are more people in the greater moncton area that can come see the game than in just Halifax. problem with that is that anywhere on the main land (i.e. not Cape Breton) should be included in the population count, which meanst that the people in a 3 hour radius from Halifax is just over 800 000 people.

Getting back to nine CFL teams remains an elusive goal; expanding to 10 or 12 is not realistic even in the medium term. Good subject for off-season chat though.

Halifax is much bigger than Moncton. The population within a one-hour drive of the city is bigger in the Halifax area than in the Moncton area. Same for a two-hour drive or a three- hour drive. Nova Scotia has a bigger population than New Brunswick. Anyway, the relevance of the population within a certain driving distance declines as the radius is increased: the further away people are from the stadium, the less likely they are to go to games on a regular basis.

Moncton is half the size of the next smallest CFL city, Regina. I think Saskatchewan is unique in the CFL for having a substantial number of fans making a three hour drive from Saskatoon to Regina for the games. I doubt that the league can count on that experience being duplicated by a team in Moncton.

I think Halifax is a much better bet as a long-term proposition. At least it's as big as Regina or bigger, though still smaller than all other CFL cities. Plans for a 10,000 seat stadium in Moncton don't warrant going there instead of Halifax. Sure, the stadium plan could be changed and seating capacity expanded, but if you're going to triple the size of the stadium, why not put one in Halifax instead where there is a much larger population base nearby to support a team? Anyway, no prospective owner has stepped forward in either location, so the whole discussion is moot. Only in Ottawa is there an identifiable ownership group, and even doing that expansion seems to be a formidable ongoing challenge.

Ottawa, Quebec, Halifax and London all seem like better expansion bets than Moncton to me. Each is much bigger than Moncton and with greater individual and corporate wealth. I'm happy to see the TD Atlantic games happen in Moncton, but it's a very long way from those to having a viable CFL franchise there.

The CFL has to get another team in Quebec this province is football crazy. A team in Quebec city would be good for the CFL and a great rivalry for Montreal. It would make the best rivalry in the country I believe. :thup:

Politicians can talk all they want, and they can build stadiums but it comes down to NO OWNERS NO FOOTBALL!!
and No Owners because there is no market for CFL football in these cities. Yes Quebec can attract 20,000 for college football but I doubt they could they attract that for CFL football.
Moncton may be able to build a 20,000 seat stadium but doesn't mean they can attract 20,000 for football.

Where were the potential owners for the Argos?? The CFL has to look at the problems in Hamilton and Toronto before they even think about Moncton or Quebec. Southern Ontario can only support one team not two.
Ottawa makes sense and one team in either Hamilton or Toronto.

I will say that having one team in southern Ontario does make a whole lot of sense particularly if a stadium located right on or near a GO line happens with also lots of parking. I was hoping that after the ARgos won their last Grey Cup with the local owners they had, they would be filling the RC for every game since but that didn't happen and I think season tickets only went up to about the 12,000 range. That to me showed the Argos are probably not a viable franchise in the long run in Toronto, certainly not at the RC and it didn't surprise me that no one came on board other than David Braley when the local C & S decided to get out.

I also doubt that David Braley as owner will be able to up the Argos season ticket base regardless of how successful the team is. The Argos are doomed I think because Braley isn't going to lose money for too long on the team.

I really think the stadium is a big issue in Toronto even though the RC isn't a bad facility at all but people just don't like it for football or baseball any more, so it seems.

The various reports state that the economic spinoffs from having a professional sports team are approximately 5 million dollars per year to hotels, Restaurants, Bars etc. Other cities should follow the example of Winnipeg, Regina, and Edmonton and have the teams community owned.

I'm not a geography major, and I've never lived out East, but I'm sure the Moncton vs Halifax argument have long been debated, and not just when it comes to CFL football.

Moncton is not a very big city/town on its own, but is certainly more central than Halifax which is about 2.5 hours away. Other major centres close by include St. John, Fredericton, and Charlottetown, but they are all at least 1.5 hours away. If you were to look at the area within 1 hour of each city, I'd bet Halifax has more people. Extend that to 2.5 hours and possibly Moncton has more people.

The big question is how far people are willing to travel to go to a football game. After that, either of these sites need viable facilities and owners to make this work. The other issue is the extra travel distance to make it to the East coast.

I'm all for having the CFL in the East, and I think there would be some solid support, but everything has to be worked out.

I also think that Quebec city is another good option for the CFL, but again the facilities and owners must be there. I read recently that Quebec City may bid for the Winter games (2022?). This would most likely require a significant stadium, or enlarging an existing facility, and could be another step forward for that location.


Wasn't Braley very negative towards the exhibition game
that then Commissioner Tom Wright set up in Halifax?

Now he owns the Argos and is trying to build
that franchise back to a level of respectability

and the Argos are giving up a regular season home game

in order for the league to find out if there is fan interest
in the CFL in and around another small East Coast town.

when there hasn't been any sign of any local entrepreneurs
being interested in buying an expansion franchise out there

just as there wasn't any interest in Halifax back then.

Heck, no buyers could be found for an established team in Toronto.


IMO, Quebec appears to be the better choice for future expansion.

Braley is in for 5 years minimum [he will be 73 yrs old then]

and he stated categorically that he definitely
ain't gonna move out of the Roger's Centre.

The perception on T.V. of a small stadium being
a riotously entertaining places to be a part of,

which Cynamon and Solkoloski yearned for
and so many fans and media types cherish

doesn't mean diddly squat to most sports business owners.

They are interested in the bottom line like David Braley is.

Notice that Montreal looks to Olympic Stadium
at play off time to offset some of the losses

they incur playing in a dinky stadium all season.

Braley will take the good rental deal that the RC offers
and work hard to fill the seats there in the long run.

The more seats a stadium has the more expenses
an owner can cover over the long haul of a season

and the more money he can make every time
his team buys a play game that they are hosting.

I don't think the host team can buy the Grey Cup game
but they sure can make money during Grey Cup week.

I hope you're right ron. One thing is if I'm a CFL fan of any team with a guy like Braley as an owner, well, doesn't get much more committed to the league than this guy that's for sure.
I agree it's good Braley didn't waffle on the RC, came right out and said this is the stadium we are playing in and it's an excellent venue. End of story. Unlike the other 2 wafflers who, while their heart was in the right place, seemed to have a difficult time making decisions.

This is for you, Earl.

How the CFL Got Revived in Toronto


Hey, great and fun read ron! Thanks.

I agree! :thup:

On a side note, but touching on the subject of exposure and interest in OUR GAME...

On our way back from Florida, just last week, we checked into a resort in the mountains at Gatlinburg Tenn. Saturday night we went down to the pub and I was wearing a long sleeve black Ticat jersey that had the small "CFL football" insignia on the back. On the TV screen was "college basketball" and a fellow sitting beside us asked me what team my shirt was from. I told him CFL, to which he said he had heard of it but had never seen it. Quite the conversation ensued and we had a great time chatting about it.

Then another fellow and his wife walked in and overhearing the conversation, he interjected that he was from New Orleans and his cousin played football up in Canada. "Kerry Watkins...have you heard of him??? He is a barber when he isn't up in Canada playing football. I don't know the name of the team but Kerry said they did good last year and he was going to play some more".

No kidding! :wink: I filled them in on the GREY CUP.

I walked out to my car and brought in some Ticat programs that I had in the trunk and fortunately I had one of the Montreal visit last year. Soon almost everyone in the bar was pouring over the programs picking out fellows who they had seen play college ball or knew personally. Needless to say there was lots of interest!

Reading posts like yours woody here sometimes makes me wish I grew up in the US where there are so many more people that really "get" football compared with Canada.
I love hockey but way, way too much hockey mentality here for my liking.

I think Moncton is one of the poorer locations for CFL expansion for the reason already stated: Too small a population unless you drive 2 or 3 hours afield to pick up extra fans.

I like Ottawa the best, providing they get the right ownership and either renovate Landsdown Park or build anew.
My second choice would be a toss up between Halifax, London, and Quebec City, all of who can provide populations to buy season tickets.

I think the CFL would fail in Moncton.

I am originally from the maritimes (Miramichi N.B. to be exact). If you put a team in Moncton, it would thrive. It be the same as the Saskatchewan Roughriders. People from all over the Maritimes would show up. Remember there are well over 1.5 millon people within a 3 hour drive from Moncton and the CFL would be the only pro-league in the region.