There won’t be any post game business in bars and restaurants that will make any difference due to 355 dark nights. Thats the bottom line. You simply cannot hide from it or try to change what I’m saying. I said the stadium would generate squat in the area, not that the CFL buisness itself is squat. You can twist it any way you like but it still won’t be what I said
And as such the business the CFL will generate from the area will do squat because of the 355 dark night. You are simply making up stuff now. There will be no build up because there will be no business generated fro the stadium 97% of the time. Try as you might you cannot compare Toronto’s situation with Hamilton’s even on a percentage basis
And BTW the Skydome was very much about urban renewal. The entire reason the site was chosen was to remediate the rail lands and create retail business opportunities in a largely run down area
The Big O in Montreal is in an undesirable spot and it didn't lure business in.
Football crowds are not like hockey, baseball, or basketball. The latter fans don't tailgate. They also have forty to eighty home dates, not ten like the CFL.
No, that’s the bottom line when you have declared the general urban renewal quest to be a failure. If the area is renewed that means more people and consumers living in the area or willing to come to the area and spend money. There might not be anything going on in the stadium in the winter but that doesnt mean any businesses in the area would be empty.
When you’re convinced of failure you cant see the argument for success.
That sir will happen or not happen no matter where the stadium is built and it will happen at exactly the same proportion stadium or no stadium. That type of renewal has nothing to do with a stadium but rather neighborhood improvement and growth that is achieved thru different means and would be better served by spending less on the stadium and having more money for other worthwhile projects. I see success without a stadium more than with one. What the area needs is permanent residents. A stadium does not contribute to that goal
You’re helping make the City’s case.
Any renewal of downtown would come from varied means. The City never said the stadium would be THE agent for downtown renewal just one part of it. Since the City and team needs a new one built why not make it a part of the plan. “Spending less” ? the city showed some financial prudence at least in making it a relatively small, outdoor stadium instead of some expensive, roofed monstrosity.
Stadiums may not create renewal but they dont make the idea of renewal a failure before they’re even built either.
AKT is right that the stadium will not regenerate downtown renewal. And I believe the city is lying that it will have a SIGNIFICANT effect to add to the cumulative factor they are touting as overall regeneration. Some effect, yes, no question, but significant - NO. Not justify them spending all of this $60 mill on a friggin football stadium. Get real city, only a fraction of a fraction of people in your city care about the TigerCats, that's just the way it is, or a football stadium.
There won’t be 355 dark nights.
As it is now, I recall reading somewhere that the city makes more from rent on soccer at IWS than it does from the Tiger-Cats.
So add the soccer nights to high school football to other community usage, and that’s a lot of people frequenting the donwtown area that includes its bars and restaurants. Exactly what they and the city would like.
Exactly right, and it needs repeating here often for some reason.
I’ve shown the CUI report (more than once) identifying many projects contributing to the revitalization of downtown, the stadium being only one of them.
I live several blocks from IWS. Trust me when I tell you that the other nights that the stadium is used is largely by groups that numbers less than 300 and they will contribute nothing to the area's bar and restaurant scene. The stadium adds nothing to the cumulative effect. I've said this often. That report is completely off base on the stadium issue IMO. The Canadian Urban institute is a Toronto based organization that bases their opinions on Toronto not on midsized cities. Frankly I think the entire institute is full of it and worthless. Its not based on facts or reality of anything other than Toronto. I am not supporting the city's case I'm punching holes in it They'd be better off righting off the $10M in acquisition and remediation costs and building parkland on Rheem and selling of portions (at a substantial loss) for housing than putting in a stadium if its about urban renewal. That way they would still have their $50M portion for the stadium elsewhere and their goal of brownfield remediation and urban renewal initiatives would be realized
I would think that hundreds, even dozens of potetnial customers heps to some degree.
Plus there’s the added point (That’s been mentioned often and forgotten or ignored just as often) that the WH location will draw people to downtown that normally do not come downtown and exp[ose them to what downtown has to offer therby bringing them back on non event days/nights.
OK then, a community multipad arena or a soccer facility with multiple fields or baseball complex contribute more at a far lower price both initially and in maintainance. Lets build a 6 pitch soccer complex there :roll:
Your return visit argument on non game days is wishful thinking. I don't expect that to happen
Exactly. If a stadium pulls in business and ‘urban renewal’ why don’t we see that around IWS?
Will people be suddenly clamouring to live in the West Harbour area? To be close to the stadium?
Look at Ottawa - the Scotiabank Place was built in Kanata in the middle of nowhere. The city could not agree on conbributing or freeing up any land in the downtown for an NHL team. It was private investors who bought a farmers field and built the arena - now its surrounded by development. Shopping, car dealerships, Home Depot, hotels, housing all surround the Scotiaband Place where there was nothing before. Next to a four lane highway and great bus service.
As Churchill said "Build it and they will come"..............or was it Keven Costner?
And the private investors went bankrupt Jay, twice!!!
IWS is in a residential area.
Rheem is very close to downtown. Hess Village 800m and a few blocks to James N, and is at the West Harbour itself
And again for the umpteenth time, a stadium alone, as IWS is, will not do it. The downtown location has many other reasons to be there and has many other drawing features.
And I say Rheem is not downtown but rather in a residential zone. IMO your reasoning is seriously flawed. Apparently not mant investors agree either
Finally something AKT and I agree on. My son played rep. soccer in hamilton for yrs. and his teams used Ivor Wynn stadium for some games and practices. All the players were between 12 to 16 and certainly no one was taking the teams to the local bars after the game. We were all just glad to get home after a long day of work and get the kids home to do some home work.
What possibly makes the Rheem site attractive for a football stadium? This is probably the worst site in the city to put a stadium. Parking will continue to be an issue and frankly I am geetting to old and tired to walk a half dozen + blocks after a game.
Time for the Cats to tell the mayor to hit the road and leave the decision to whom it will most effect. The ownership, and the fans of the team.
No problem Mopar... The mayor will hit hit the road... with the 60 mil in hand for something else.
"AKT wrote:I live several blocks from IWS. Trust me when I tell you that the other nights that the stadium is used is largely by groups that numbers less than 300 and they will contribute nothing to the area's bar and restaurant scene."
Dude, I live in the same area... lets agree, there is no bar and restaurant scene. Where u gona go after the game or before? Dizzy Weasel? Prince Edward Tavern? Chez Antoine? At least at West Harbor there James North, Stonewalls, Hess. And if you got wheels or u want to spend $8 on a cab u can get to Locke st or Augusta.
At this rate the mayor won’t get 6 cents towards this project because there is a good chance York University will end up getting the stadium deal with all the fighting between city hall and the team.
Anyone with an objective opinion can see the mayor is stalling this deal to get re-elected. He could care less one way or the other if the team gets a new stadium.
I just hope the voters realize what they are going to lose if this deal isn’t finalized soon.
The pan am games will generate millions for the winning city. Certainly the city with the forsight to see this will be making every effort to accomidate the games and the building of the stadium.
So far Hamilton has accomidated itself with self centered ideas about rebuilding the downtown with someone elses money.
My bet is Hamilton will lose the stadium and the games in a very short time.
If that happens get ready to see our Cats leave the city as well.
Hopefully London would get the cats. That way us loyal fans can at least drive to a couple of games a yr.