Toronto Star Article: Ticat-Argo Shared Stadium?

Cats are losing millions every year and the Rheem site plan so far means what, some $7 mill a year in losses as Bob says.

That means no Cats in the future. So let's think of solutions to try and keep the CFL alive in these parts or we'll have no teams around to be able to enjoy ourselves to go to for a high level football game in our country. If it means a bit more of a jaunt for me, I'm all for it. People travel from Hamilton and further to go to games in Toronto, I'm willing to travel a bit to see the Cats or any CFL team in the area if whatever team that should be in the future.

AKT: You make no sense. Let me help.
Here's part of Wikipedia's definition of being a sports fan:
"Fans usually have a strong enough interest that some changes in their lifestyles are made to accommodate devotion to the focal object."
You do not qualify. :thdn:

As usual 62 you make personal attacks based on not actually reading my posts. I'm sick and tired of your nonsense. What exactly is your problem???????? Leave your crap off this site please. You are free to disagree with my opinion but what you do goes well beyond that. A fan base is made up of many lifestyles and viewpoints. To belittle anyone not conforming to your views is damaging to the team. I'm not sure what part of that you fail to understand

I abandoned the Browns when they moved to Baltimore. I will do the same if the Ticats leave Hamilton. Even if I were to remain a fan going to Oakville is not an option. I WILL NOT DRIVE THE QEW. End of discussion. The Go is not an option as I am not a sardine and refuse to use that abortion.

wow, I must say, I'm a little surprised by the reaction people are having to this idea. I don't really understand why driving a little ways out of Hamilton makes that much of a difference. I live in Milton and yet still drive into Hamilton for every home game. Isn't 'Confederation Park', the "preferred site" for a stadium, actually located in Stoney Creek? Now, I know that Stoney Creek is a part of an 'greater Hamilton area', however, it was once known as a separate town.

Anyway, to me sharing the cost of a stadium just makes a lot of economic sense. We could have a much better venue than if the Argos or Ticats build one on their own. Now, I understand that for some people the idea of the stadium not sitting with Hamilton boundaries suggests that the team is no longer Hamilton's. I guess this is what people get upset with. The driving distance to Oakville is negligible. If you live on the west side of Hamilton it would be a similar distance to drive to confederation park or to a location in Oakville, no?

One last point, I lived in Winnipeg for a while. Just because I was a long distance from my team did not mean that my loyalties changed. I was still a Tiger-Cat fan and cheered loudly for my team when they came into Winnipeg stadium. I guess for me I bleed black and gold, regardless of where I am or where the team is playing. I don't mean to be critical of those that do not have this type of relationship with their team. I'm just trying to explain that I might have a bit of a bias when it comes to not being concerned about where the stadium is located.

wlander, just to clarify, Confederation Park is in Hamilton. The boundary for Stoney Creek at the lake is Gray Road and easterly. That area of the city had very confusing boundaries, even before amalgamation. Surprising how many people thought the lived in the Creek but weren't even close. :slight_smile:

wlanders, my objection to a shared stadium has nothing to do with where it's located or how far it is to get there. I lived in Toronto for six years and came back for games sometimes. I'll travel wherever the team plays to watch games. My objection is, honestly, kinda juvenile. I just can't see sharing a stadium with them based purely on my own hatred for the Ar-blows. Labour Day with 50% of the crowd being Arg-hole fans? No thank you.

At least you didn't say I'm not a true fan. Coming from out of town you really don't have a grasp of the sense of community the Ticats are a part of and the fact that all of that would be lost if they moved out of the city. I wonder if you are a long time member of your community or if you are one of the many people who have taken residence since your town's population explosion. If you are a newby then I could understand your failure to comprehend civic pride. I certainly feel you have no comprehension of the hatred of Toronto that permeates almost every facet of life in this city. I wonder as well whether you are a commuter or do you work in Milton. If you are a commuter then you probably don't understand the resistance to travelling the QEW. Maybe I have this all wrong. Maybe you have lived in Milton all along and have been a Ticat fan travelling to games for years. If so I apologize for offending you

I stand corrected on the fact that confederation park was not a part of Stoney Creek ...

Blogskee wee wee, I hear ya. I'm not fond of the Argos either. In fact, I hate hearing their fans cheer in Ivor Wynne when the Argos score. So I know where you're coming from. However, this will only be something we'll have to deal with when we play the Argos. For all other games, it will be majority Cats fans as it is now. In fact, if we still have 15,000 + season tickets in the new stadium, then when we host the Argos, we'll out number there fans as we'll be the home team and their season ticket holders will have to buy whatever tickets are left. This won't be much different than today, except that the stadium will be a little easier and closer to get to for them. Marketed well in steeltown and we can sell our the stadium for labour day so that's it 's almost exclusively Cats fans.

AKT: I've lived in Milton for nearly 7 years now and a season ticket holder through all those years. I lived in Cambridge for 3 years before moving to Milton and I was a season ticket holder then as well. I currently commute to Mississauga via the GO train to avoid the traffic. I used to commute to Mississauga from Grimsby (where my parents live and where I grew up) along the QEW to the 403 (this is before the 407 existed). Believe me, I know what traffic is like along the QEW. However, why not use the GO train? It's right downtown, close to where the harbour front stadium would be. If you have no issue driving to that area, then you can hop on the GO train for a short ride into Oakville (if this is where the Cats and Argos would have their joint stadium). This is what I do when I go to the Molson Amphitheatre. I drive down to Oakville to catch the GO in to Toronto. It's great b/c the train stops right at Exhibition Place. I would hope they (Argos and Cats) would come up with something similar. A train station within walking distance of the new stadium.

Everyone has a different opinion to what a fan of a team is supposed to be. I don't believe in putting other people down just because of their opinion. I do believe, however, in being loyal. With the performance of the Cats over the last decade, I think every single one of their current fans are extremely loyal. This to mean is what fans are all about. Sticking with their team through the good and the bad.

As for sharing a stadium with our enemy. I think of it like this. We'll only see them in our house 3 - 4 times a year. The rest of the time we'll either not be there (i.e. when Argos are hosting someone else) or we'll be there but we'll be hosting a team other than the Argos. Really, no different than it is now. The bonus of it is probably a better stadium as the cost will be shared. The travel to the stadium will be the same whether we're there for a Cat's home game or an Agro's home game. Therefore going to see our Cats play the Argos as visitors will be easier.

The only negative that I can see from some people's perspective is that the stadium isn't on Hamilton soil. There might be some that can not get over this, which is too bad. After all, if you're there to see the Cats win, you're really not going to care at that moment which city you're actually in. You'll just feel the pride of being a Cat's fan, along with all of the other Cat's fans.

I think a lot of people who live in Hamilton as a bedroom city, and let's face it there are quite a few here who work outside of Hamilton especially work in Toronto/Mississauga/Oakville who consider themselves "Torontonians" (why is beyond me but that's another question :wink: ).

So I can see a shared stadium being very positive. We have a lot in common with Toronto, we have some differences and therefore sharing a stadium actually makes some sense. The Jets and Giants just put up different coloured bannering around the field level and end zones, this can be done here. And companies could get on board from both cities and in between.

I love it to be honest but then I honestly think I'm more open than a lot of people on this board. Probably lacking in intelligence compared with most but I think my flexibility and openness makes up for a bit of grey matter. Hope so! :o

Josh: A true fan!
But that's not why I am responding.
For some reason I have never stopped by your blog despite seeing the big logo on your posts here.
Until today.
So I just want to tell you that your blog is excellent. Well-written and very informative.... especially with regard to the background on new players and the draft picks. I am never up on that stuff.
So thanks for the great work!

:D :D :D :D :D :thup: :thup: :thup: :thup:

Nothing juvenile about that Blogskee, at all. But let me turn your hatred into a positive here. The positive you ask? Here's the positive, if there are 50 % of the fans for Labour Day being Arg-hole fans as you say, for a TigerCat home game, then guess what? You guessed it, huge demand on the part of TigerCat fans to get all the tickets asap. This is what we all want around these parts for the CFL, TigerCats, Argos - to just be successful.

Don't worry, in a shared stadium there will be a limit on the number of tickets the visiting team can buy. Oh man, am I liking that or what!!!! Demand for TigerCats tickets, music to my ears my man. Of course the Arg-holes can do the same when they play the TigerCats. Is that a win-win or what? Yup. :thup: :thup: :thup: :thup: :thup: :thup:

Thanks for the kind words. I'm just a guy with an opinion and a little too much time on my hands. I just really love the Tabbies, and I figured I could do my part to promote the team. I saw that no one was really doing a Tiger-Cat-dedicated blog, so I figured, "why not me?" I might as well put my university essay writing skills to good use.

The draft stuff is hard, really hard. I watch almost any form of football I can, so it helps, but it's really hard to identify which CIS guys will be good pros. The NCAA guys, especially former NFL draft picks, I know very well. It takes a lot of effort and I am glad people out there, like yourself, are enjoying it. Thank you.

OK, Earl, I do see a positive here. Demand for Tiger-Cat tickets, therefore making the team financially successful, is a very good thing. I still don't like any scenario that moves the team out of Hamilton, but if that's what happens, so be it. I'll live... and I'll still go to the games.

You're right there , I don't like it either but I like a lot more the existence of our teams than the opposite of that. I think that is what we have to make our number one priority here. Everything can't be exactly as we want it, unfortunately of course. But we can work around it to keep it all going, and maybe going much better than now really.

Better a team in Oakville than no team at all, on that, Earl, we can definitely agree. I don't know what I'd do if there wasn't Tiger-Cat football. Hopefully, that's something I never have to worry about.

That would also be a no for me and the many people who attend the Argos from the east end of Toronto and outside the GTA.
A horrible idea.

Horrible ideas sometimes turn out to be ok. Remember when the Church said blashemy that the Earth wasn't the centre of the Universe. Ok, I don't actually remember but do read about it here and there. :wink:

Yes maybe Earl, but by going either to one end or the other, you generally lose a whack of people on the opposite site, like me and my 4 season tickets.

And pickup perhaps 16 more. Yes, there is risk but isn't there risk with any more ambitious effort? And let's face it, the CFL needs ambitious efforts in southern Ontario if it's going to succeed longterm, that much I'm sure we both agree on.

You being from the Hamilton area Earl, can someone please explain to us the current stalemate of Mr. Young vs that twit of a mayor.
If Mr. Young says the current area is bad, we have to believe him and especially as he will be again investing with sponosrs at around $50M to upgrade the stadium.

After the initial "no way", it's not such a bad idea. It's actually pretty similar to the argument for bringing the NHL to Hamilton.
Hamilton isn't an isolated place surrounded by mountians and glaciers - it's a part of a huge sprawling and economically rich population centre.

The tens of thousands of vehicles and that leave Hamilton for better economic opportunity each and every morning know that. And the thousands that go to Toronto for entertainment also know that.

It's risky business to make money from a stadium with a primary tenant that hosts ten events a year. If Hamilton is so broke, and doesn't have the cash or stomach for transformational projects, let them spend the money they have on sewers and asphalt. Let some other more prosperous community cobble together the gov't largesse, throw in a few $ of their own, and build and take responsibility for the stadium for the next 75 years. Let Mr. Young pay market rates for use of the facility, in competition with concerts and other events.

From a personal perspective, if Mr. Young and his cohorts get their way and I have no choice but to hop in my car and drive to some big parking lot somewhere, I might as well drive to some parking lot in Aldershot or Oakville. Better yet, put it near Go transit, which the GTA is far more committed to than the anti-urban renewal crew currently waking waves in the Hammer, so I can drink a few at the game.