Not sure what practices you attended, but I went to a bunch of them in 2012 and I could hear Creehan screaming at nearly every one.
If Creehan is as bad as is being put forward, he wouldn't be working in this league. There are way too many good coaches with no professional job out there to keep a dud in the organization. College ranks are full of men who would jump at the chance for a pro gig.
Coaching in the pros is not like coaching high school or junior ball. The position coaches have a lot of personnel decisions taken out of their hands by head coaches, managers owners etc. In some cases (see: Creehan's time in Hamilton) they are asked to make chocolate cake out of crap. It can't be done. In others, they are asked to change their system by the same folks above who have tied their hands in other ways. How can they be expected to draw success from that?
Many, many coaches have failed before they have succeeded. Austin, Lancaster and on and on. A young coach has to take the jobs as they come and does not yet have the luxury to be selective or to wait for the "ideal" situation.
A lot of assumptions in this thread and on this site about how players have reacted to Casey's coaching style. Unless you were in the locker room. You just can't know.
This could be very very good news for the TCats. :cowboy:
Creehan got the job here because of how late Cortez was hired and because Cortez was buddies with Casey’s dad, Denny. He gave him a break and he failed. He’s buddies with Burke, so when he got the head coaching gig in Winnipeg, he brought him along. When Burke was fired and landed in Toronto, he brought Casey along because of their history together. Now he gets this job because Burke left so close to the season. I doubt very much that if Burke had resigned back in November, that Creehan would have been hired. He was pretty much the only guy the team could hire, very similar to what happened last year in Montreal when they fired their OC (the name escapes me right now) two days or thereabouts into training camp. We’ll know if Creehan has changed his ways if the Toronto defense performs well or if Creehan is asked back next year. But as of now, based on what we do know (ie. his tenure as DC in Hamilton and Winnipeg), this is not going to go well for the Argos.
From the CFL:
"Creehan previously spent 2010-2011 in Winnipeg coaching the linebackers and defensive line. His return to Winnipeg reunites him with Coach Tim Burke, with whom he has coached in numerous CFL cities and together have come up with some of the league’s stingiest defences.
Beginning his tenure in Winnipeg as linebackers coach in 2010, Creehan helped oversee a unit that finished second in fewest yards net offence and allowed the fewest yards net passing while registering the most quarterback sacks.
Taking over as defensive line coach midway through the 2011 season, Creehan and Burke teamed up to form the league’s best defence, finishing first in 12 defensive categories including fewest first downs allowed, fewest yards net offence, most interceptions and most quarterback sacks for the second year in a row."
“Casey Creehan comes to the Argos with nine years of CFL experience having coached for four CFL teams, all in various capacities ranging from defensive line coach to defensive coordinator. Creehan was most recently the defensive coordinator for the Winnipeg Blue Bombers where his aggressive defensive strategies yielded an incredible 51 sacks in 2013.”
But as of now, based on what we do know (ie. his tenure as DC in Hamilton and Winnipeg), this is not going to go well for the Argos.I guess we will see. That second quote seems to fly in the face of your assertion that he has had no success as a DC. However, it is hard to believe that he "forgot how to coach" when he became a DC in Hamilton. Also, you seem to have cherry picked his less than stellar stints as DC and passed over his other coaching positions to put forward your position that he is a bad coach. As I noted above, there is a lot that can happen that is out of the control of a coach at the pro level.
I’ll say it again, if he was as bad as he is being presented on this forum, he wouldn’t be a pro coach. Full stop.
In Hamilton Casey was very passionate about putting together his defensive schemes and his job as a DC, Casey was a hell of a hard worker and I believe a highly motivational however HC George Cortez was a big thorn in his side interfering about who he was allowed to start if not the regarding the whole defensive scheme
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From what I read, Cortez wasn’t a thorn in his side but pretty much left CC to his own devices in spite of his inexperience as a DC. They may have had some disagreements about players starting but it is up to the HC to determine the ratio for each game. Creehan had time to develop his scheme and then use training camp to find the players who would best implement his defense. I do recall that there were times when it seemed like the defense had some spark and had maybe turned a corner but it never lasted. There was just no consistency.
@BillyDee87 - And just where did the Bomber finish in 2013 with their league-leading sack record? Right out of the playoffs. Yes they had a weak offense, a QB carousel and some external distractions, but remember Burke was there to mentor Creehan. He won’t be there to hold in hand in Toronto. BTW a press release is always going to highlight the good stuff and ignore the not-so-complementary stuff.
@BillyDee87 - And just where did the Bomber finish in 2013 with their league-leading sack record? Right out of the playoffs. Yes they had a weak offense, a QB carousel and some external distractions, but remember Burke was there to mentor Creehan. He won't be there to hold in hand in Toronto. BTW a press release is always going to highlight the good stuff and ignore the not-so-complementary stuff.None of which proves that Creehan was the problem. In fact, based on what you have said, Casey appears to be the only competent part of that coaching staff. Burke included. With that type of disarray on offence and off the field, his team (the D) would have borne the burden of higher that normal time on the field. And they still excelled for an entire season, rather than die off in the stretch. He was his on his own as coordinator in 2013. How do you know that Burke acted as "mentor" that season? At some point, a leader has to let his assistants lead on their own.
Nor does it explain why on this forum he is vilified and deemed incompetent, and yet he keeps getting hired and keeps on working.
Creehan is now the Argos defensive coordinator, not their linebacker coach or defensive line coach or defensive backs coach. In 2012 in Hamilton and 2013 in Winnipeg, he was a defensive coordinator. Both teams’ defensive were, to put it bluntly, terrible. It doesn’t matter what he did in any other capacity because his previous stints in the job he will have in 2015 he has been terrible. I compare his previous stints as a defensive coordinator because that is the job he will have this season. Do I need to be clearer?
All that glowing press release tells me is that he is a very good position coach and a terrible coordinator. The only mention of his coordinating experience is saying the Bombers led the league in sacks in 2013. No mention of his time in Hamilton and no mention of anything else he did in Winnipeg. By the way, that league-leading sack year in 2013 was coupled with Winnipeg finishing 3-15 and giving up a league-high 585 points (or an average of 32.5 points per game), which came a year after the Hamilton defense he oversaw gave up a league-high 576 points (or an average of 32 points per game).
But if you want to keep thinking guys get jobs solely on merit, that’s cool. Facts are facts, and the facts are that defenses overseen by Casey Creehan will give up a ton of points. That’s what the stats show. Full stop.
The only defensive stat mentioned is that Winnipeg had the highest number of sacks in 2013. There is nothing about any other part of the defense which, as I recall, wasn’t all that stellar. While sacking the QB can slow the opposition down, it is not a sure-fire way to win games. A 3-15 record can’t be hung solely on the inconsistent offense.
Maybe he has refined his DLineman in coverage strategy.
But if you want to keep thinking guys get jobs solely on merit, that's cool. Facts are facts, and the facts are that defenses overseen by Casey Creehan will give up a ton of points. That's what the stats show. Full stop.And defencive stats do not tell everything about a season. Look at the points for that year. How could they have not given up the most points? They were on the field much more than the offence, in an offencive league. The D had basically no help. Looked at in context, not so damning is it?
I’m not suggesting that you believe me, or in coach Creehan for that matter. I’m suggesting that the evidence presented here as PROOF is his incompetence is not enough. Everyone else has access to those stats and his coaching record Head coaches, managers, Football Operations managers, team owners. For every team in the league. And yet, he gets hired year in, year out. In TO, there is no “interim” qualifier to his title. And I would have to believe that Milanovich knows what he’s getting and that if there was even a sniff of lack of respect for him in the locker room, that Creehan wouldn’t even have been kept on as a defencive assistant last year. An assumption by me for sure, but based on some logic, not on some past hate for the guy or whatever else passes for football smarts on this forum.
Those who hire and employ him are far better qualified to know what kind of a coach Creehan is than some folks who went to a few practices and watched a few games on TV.
And if coaches in this league are not hired on merit, then the league is in serious trouble.
It's a buddy system, man, and always has been. Burke was good friends with Denny Creehan, Casey's dad. So he brings Casey with him wherever he goes (Montreal, Winnipeg, Toronto). If you think jobs in any profession are won or lost solely on merit, I have some real estate in Florida I'd like to sell you. 
Agreed. It always amazes me how fans will swallow the PR line of a team whenever a player is signed or a coach is hired. It doesn’t matter if the coach is an inanimate carbon rod, the presser will describe him as a valuable asset who brings a “wealth of experience” to the position, blah blah blah. I used to write press releases; unless you’ve written them yourself, it may be hard to realize how formulaic and empty they are, how unrelated they can be to the object / player / product / person being described.
The bottom line: Creehan was a disaster in his last two stints as DC. I don’t care about position coach. He’s now the Argos DC and he’ll be evaluated on what he does as a coordinator, not as a linebackers coach.
Toronto had few options with Camp about to start and the number of DC's that have rolled in and out of town (systems) since Milanovich took over. There was no way other teams would even consider letting them talk to any of their staff. So Creehan gets the team. Kind of like how Dinwiddie got the offense in Montreal last year.
I recall a few seasons ago, when Toronto the slimy totally ignored a valid contract that Calgary had with their DC, Chris Jones, and all they got penalized in executing the theft was 5 thousand dollars.
Now, their current defensive co-ordinator, Tim Burke, has left them and all they have remaining in the coaching cupboard is Casey Creehan.
Karma can be a wonderful thing.
Indeed. We here in Montreal feel that after years of the Argos raiding our coaching staff (Milanovich, Brady, Himebauch) but not even letting us talk to coaches within their organization about Montreal jobs.
Oui ! Les Argonauts Sucent !
A few facts just to set the record straight:
Scott Milanovich was the OC in Montreal and was offered and accepted the HC position with the Argos… a promotion and more money. Marcus Brady’s contract as OC with Montreal had expired and he decided to follow Milanovich to the Argos and stated at the time “The biggest reason (for the move) was another opportunity to work with Scott”.
Jonathan Himebauch was offensive line coach in Montreal and was offered and accepted the OC position with the Argos …a promotion and more money. Shortly thereafter, Himebauch was offered the position of offensive line coach with Wake Forest University. Milanovich publicly congratulated Himebauch and the Argos released him from his contract so he could pursue the NCAA opportunity which he reportedly had been seeking.
Do you have a problem with coaches accepting promotions and seeking/pursuing opportunities for personal advancement?
LOL at your facts. I’m perfectly aware of how those hires went down, thank you. Doesn’t change the fact that Toronto has done nothing but take from our organization without giving anything in return. They develop very little on their own. And where Brady actually made a lateral move to join Toronto, they have, since Barker took over, refused to let us speak to their coaches about opportunities for “personal advancement.”
You claim to be aware of the facts but you seem incapable of accepting the fact that these gentlemen chose to accept promotions offered by another organization, or, simply wanted to work somewhere else when their contract ended.
Most reasonable employers and, people in general, do not begrudge someone the opportunity for personal advancement and promotion when it arises.
My advice would be to offer your coaches similar opportunities for advancement and security, and perhaps they’ll stay longer.
When a coach chooses to join another organization which is offering a promotion or a better opportunity, I’m not aware that anyone or anything needs to be sent back in return. There wasn’t a “trade” involving these coaches - they simply chose to take advantage of better opportunities when offered.
By ‘very little’, do you mean recent examples like Chris Jones who left the Argos’ to accept a promotion to be HC at Edmonton or Orlondo Steinauer who chose to take a lateral move and join Hamilton as DC? I don’t think their respective teams would describe these gentlemen as “very little”.
You tend to “play loose” with the facts - you’ll need to provide specific examples.