Tiger-Cats won't return to stadium talks with city: Mitchell

Slodrive5,

The deal was removed and their point was well made the day before the city hall show. Did you listen to Bob Young speak this morning on the fan? He made it pretty clear as to why he took the EM direction.

What upsets me in all this has always been the Hostco hostage deal, and at NO TIME did Bob Young say give me a stadium. In fact he has taken heat for being to silent. All these details mean nothing any more now that council spoke, but what needs to be clear is who has asked for what.

The City asked to bid for the games the city asked to spend the FF money and the city asked Bob Young to spend 50 million for the right to pay rent at a HOME he felt would not work.

Had we not been awarded this cursed games and Bob Young asked then fine state your case.

BTW notice that again its the city asking the TiCats to talk.

Well put.

It amazes me how many so-called TiCat fans are against Bob. Oh, here comes the "owners come and go" defence, but without this owner there wouldn't be a Tiger Cats franchise. I can understand the looney lefties who signed up here yesterday bashing Bob, but how anyone who pretends to care about this team sides against our Caretaker is beyond me.

If you look at the proposal Bob put together for the East Mountain footaball stadium and West Harbour velodrome any municipal politican with a shred of common sense should have snatched it up in a second. Bob's vision for the West Harbour was superior to what's on the table right now. Obstacles like this in government projects usually means a decision maker is on the take.

[quoteIf you look at the proposal Bob put together for the East Mountain footaball stadium and West Harbour velodrome any municipal politican with a shred of common sense should have snatched it up in a second. Bob's vision for the West Harbour was superior to what's on the table right now. Obstacles like this in government projects usually means a decision maker is on the take.]
[/quote]
I agree this smells of coruption.

You're exactly right, Ockham.

The other thing is, the city hadn't listened to the Ticats for 9 months as per Bob's Fan 590 interview, they didn't listen to the facilitator either....why would they have started to listen yesterday?

When is the right time to stop banging your head against a brick wall?

the Blind leading the Blind!!! It would not be surprising to here that Mitchel and Young have agreements with the NFL to partner in the use of the E.M. site!???

When did the City of Hamilton ever ask B.Y. for 50 million. wasn't it B.Y. who offered it? Oh but its protracted over 10 years or so ? so its actually the fans who s money is on the table , Pretty good B. Plan :roll:
It would not be surprising to see the City Challenge the Blind leading the Blind in Court over moving the team since its been subsidized by the Host city all along!!.

I like Bob Young , But be Honest the only people driving to the E.M. site would be from the east Mountain or st kits. How can you make a profit by selling 5000 tickets to each game??
Instead of making threats and isolating your position Push the Governments for an Access road to W.H. via Burlington st and Wellington.
Hamilton Tiger-Cat fans deserve better!!.IMHO

I’ve been an avid supporter of this team and Bob Young throughout. My support for Bob took a major hit with his letter. You guys all raise great points about the last proposal the Ticats provided. And, I believe that could very well have served well during the meeting last night. No where in any of the Ticats proposal did it address the additional costs required to make the East Mountain viable. So, since there wasn’t anyone on hand from the organization to refute the numbers, offer a solution, provide any sort of comfort that the city wouldn’t be on the hook for another $20 million, in addition to the fact that at the time of the vote, exactly ZERO dollars were on the table from the team, how could they not vote West Harbour??

I’m amazed that you guys would have more confidence in your elected officials if they based their vote on complete thin air. If the Ticats had been there, representing the merits of the EM, fine. They were not. Thus, the debate could only be limited to what’s the best use of the future fund and what’s the most financially responsible option.

Again, I’m not going to bat for how the city has handled this situation. The whole process has outraged me. Both sides of this should be completely ashamed at how this has come to pass. Both sides claim to have ‘expert studies’ that show how both sites can be successful. Last night (and/or many, many times prior) would’ve been a great public forum to let the two sides of the story go head to head.

And comparing this situation to ordinary landlord-tenant relationships is absurd. I can walk down the street to find accomodations that better fit my lifestyle and idea of comfort. Stadiums with $100 million of, essentially, free money don’t exactly find themselves on every city block.

Read the bid plan and shared costs to rent that poorly located stadium required a 50 million dollar private investment. WOW what a deal. As a bonus your not allowed revenue streams and better then that you get 100% no say as to location.

Cant believe theres not a line up out side city hall, because who wouldnt want that deal.

This notion that Scott Mitchell's presence in that room yesterday would have changed anything is a daft as Capt. Kirk thinking the 'our city our future' wackos are suddenly going to start buying TiCat season tickets at the WH stadium.

Then f’n show up and negotiate yourself a sweetheart of a deal!! Hell, the Cats have the city over a barrel! They really could negotiate their way to guaranteeing any losses for the next 25 years. That could blow the doors off of anything they might have been able to reap at the EM.

Keen investors always use crisis as an opportunity to jump in at ultra-low prices. Perhaps this is part of the plan. Let council sweat a bit and then ride in as knights-in-shining-armour and scoop up parking revenues, rent-free, guaranteed season ticket levels. The vault’s open now.

slo, give it up buddy, you're sounding like some of the people blaming everybody for this and that and everything else. The TigerCats were not being asked as true partners from the beginning, even Fred himself said they were a minority player or something like that hence you have to know communication was basically very minimal and along the lines of "speak when you're asked to and that is all, thank-you very much".

Minority player but he wants $50 mill or whatever from the TigerCats for his stadium so they can pay rent! What a joke!

Bob has my respect if he doesn't go back to any bargaining table after behaviour like that from the Mayor. :x

Is there a pot of gold under City Hall or something? Do you honestly expect taxpayers to buy season tickets?

Last night was not to negotiate any deals. It was a series of City endorsed presentations, looney lefty rants, and a predetermined vote to endorse Mayor Fred's pipedream. Bob Young, Scott Mitchell, Pigskin Pete, or Angelo Mosca were not going to change anything and they all have better things to do with their time (like negotiate with Burlington).

Keen investors also know when to walk away from a bad proposition. Bob and his advisors have determined the WH location is just that. Accussing them of malicious intent by not attending last night's charade is disingenuous at best.

Because he doesnt want the team to be as so many call it "on wellfare" Give the man a break he was just doing business.
Just a side note if the vaults open you'd best be voting for a new mayor and council based just on that !!!!!

Fully agree, but the koolaid drinkers will be all over this one.
Kudos Mass

To not even be willing to talk to the city and hear what they have to say, is pretty childish IMO.

For the city to agree to having a mediator come to the table then completely ignore what the mediator came up with is childish in my opinion.....but what a great way to spend tax dollars!!

Agreed.
The city seems like the childish ones.

But isn't their white knight, Daryl Katz going to come save them?
That whole thing is a farce as well.

Bob has my respect as well. IMO he is too honest for these shysters. Katz and this guy that was importing strippers and who ever else is in on the fix.
The end game along looks like they have been trying to humiliate, discredit and bully Bob so he would just throw his hands up and sell the team to Katz. That’s why IMO Cohon came out and said what he did about the Hamilton franchise, if Bob Young moves there won’t be another one for Hamilton. The CFL and Bob have seen through these guys. So it was checkmate there and checkmate again when Bob withdrew his support for a stadium at WH. Now we will see if Dalton has the cahones, or what ever you call them, :slight_smile: to read the riot act to the Mayor and his cronies. Ernie Eves always said Dalton wasn’t up for the job and hasn’t that been true.

About the people who keep complaining about “my taxes, my taxes”. I’m not an accountant and there are probably a few out there reading this, but the amount per person to build this stadium would probably amount to the price of a few cups of coffee spread over Canada, Ontario and the good people fo Hamilton. Probably 25% of the people that I saw complaining, don’t even pay taxes. The guy who would have been paying the most out of pocket by a long shot would be Bob Young.
I would sure like to see the average break down on just how much us poor saps would actually be paying for this House that Fred built. I don’t think it would amount to much.

What is the main reason that WH is unprofitable for the Ticats?

They will get the same gate and concession at whatever location they play at.

Not sure I agree they will get the same gate. I personally have serious concerns about continuing to bring my 2 girls (soon to be 3; ages 4-8) to games at the West Harbour. Perhaps I am sheltering them from the real world but when I walk down the street and get offered to buy drugs or other prohibited items can you blame me for not wanting my kids to see this?. Then there are the people that will not go because of the expected traffic jams. We will need to wait and see if this ever happens and how serious this is but I know when I go to events at Bay Front park, traffic is horrendous and that is not 25,000 people hitting the street at the same time.

Wrong, the facilitator said "Pursue both sites, decide which one is viable". He did not at any point say "The East Mountain is the only site I think works" he said "Go with the East Mountain or the West Harbour, work on fixing the issues from the other side, and sit down with the Katz group"

The city did this by commissioning independent studies from the IBI group and McCormick and Rankin, who determined the East Mountain has too many costly infrastructure upgrades that not only would need to be expedited for the Pan-Ams in order to be viable, but also could barely handle a 25,000 (yet alone a 30,000) seat stadium, if 30% (which the Ti-Cats pin at far less) were using mass transit.