Ticats collect statement win at home against Bombers

[Jon]

@pantsonfire

… for them. Another lost opportunity for the Bombers. BC? Let’s not overanalyze it Blue. From your point it sounds like the Bombers weren’t trying in game 1 & game 2 proves something. The Bombers scored 2 FG’s & were held scoreless in that “other” game you lot don’t like to talk about. One good pasting on either side. You don’t get style points for playing well once - 2 points apiece. End of…

In answer to all the babbling and posturing, I see it this way.

There are only 3 teams that have a realistic chance to win the Grey Cup, probably only two. Yes I realize and recognize that any team can win any one game at any time including the playoffs, but I will assume for the moment that won’t happen. I will also assume that none of those teams suffers a devastating injury heading into the playoffs such as Collaros or Kelly, which would change everything.

As Blue pointed out, it was a given that the Bombers wouldn’t be as dominant as they have been in the last few years. They are maddingly inconsistent. Yet they could easily win the Cup. Their annihilation of Saskatchewan proved that. It also showed that despite the improvement of Edmonton who almost certainly won’t make the playoffs and Saskatchewan’s third best record, that the 3rd team in the West at the end of the year is dead in the water. Saskatchewan fans mostly are calling for wholesale changes and recognize that the current iteration of their team isn’t going to be good enough to win a playoff game in Winnipeg this year which they will likely have to. That win also showed how scary good the Bombers can be when they are hitting on even two of three cylinders and if Grant returns that could very well change to all three cylinders. Special teams again arguably cost them the game against Hamilton as much as anything, being responsible for a 6 point swing.

BC is of course the third contender. Clearly they have dropped in my opinion. While Winnipeg lost to a rapidly improving Hamilton team on the road in a close game with numerous special team gaffes and their QB throwing to the other team, BC was dominated at home a few weeks ago by a Hamilton team not playing nearly as well as they are now and lacking confidence going into that game. They didn’t bounce back and were soundly beaten by Saskatchewan after that. Despite the joy of BC fans at their comeback win this weekend, I would be very concerned. In what was supposed to be the most one sided game of the weekend they were pretty soundly beaten on the field, again at home, by clearly the worst team in the league at present that had nothing to play for. Adams was horrendous and was the main reason BC fell behind and should have lost. This is the first game I can ever recall that was lost not by the players, but by a coach sporting a field goal fetish. A punt OB would have won the game 999 times out of 1,000 as explained elsewhere, proving unequivocally that Dyce isn’t ready for prime time.

Toronto has of course been solid in almost all aspects of the game all season but do benefit from an easier schedule and much lighter travel. I wish that every team played each other twice and can’t fathom why Winnipeg and Toronto, this year a GC rematch, only play once for the second year in a row with this year Winnipeg coming off a bye and Toronto already having clinched. The bye scheduling is also preposterous. If Toronto had something to play for they would probably be in a lot of trouble having to play the last ten weeks of the season without a break. They had a huge bye advantage early but should overcome their huge bye disadvantage late by essentially creating their own bye for groups of players via rotational sitting. Also Kelly had probably
his worst game of the season this weekend, missing wide open receivers with regularity and throwing easy IT balls to defenders that were dropped at least twice. Interestingly I see Toronto and Winnipeg as very similar on special teams, one part of which is a weakness for both of them. Arguably they have the two best kicking combos in the league and also the best returners if Grant is healthy. They also have the two weakest kick coverage teams although Winnipeg is decimated by injuries to their top 4 and it is unknown whether any of them will return this year.

Barring something unforeseen and not factoring in a potential devastating injury I see Toronto and Winnipeg in s Grey Cup rematch at this point. I also think Toronto is considerably weaker than Winnipeg at second string QB as we saw in Calgary but all bets are off if Kelly or Collaros goes down. I also believe that BC will be the only challenge to Winnipeg in the West and tgst Hamilton will be the team that Toronto will have to beat in the East. I can’t predict the GC winner at this point but if Winnipeg plays their best like they did against Saskatchewan I don’t believe they can be beaten. The problem for them is that they have only played that way twice so far this year and certainly didn’t play that way in last year’s GC. Obviously there are no guarantees.

One final note of interest is that this is the first week of the year where the leading four MOP candidates as I see them, in order, played poorly. That would be Zach, Kelly, Adams and Brady, although the latter didn’t have control over receiving less touches after falling behind. So no movement in that race this week.

[ETMRaw]

@Jon

…rtainly didn’t play that way in last year’s GC. Obviously there are no guarantees.One final note of interest is that this is the first week of the year where the leading four MOP candidates as I see them, in order, played poorly. That would be Zach, Kelly, Adams and Brady, although the latter didn’t have control over receiving less touches after falling behind. So no movement in that race this week.

Being a Ticats fan, its nice not having to analyze the team. Just having to decide whether I go to to the Grey Cup game or sell my ticket. No brainpower needed.

[rider01.1]

@Jon

I guess he forgot about the five TD passes on five drives and 300 yards of passing in the first half last week. If the philosophy is one bad game and you’re out then what is Maier still doing playing?

Homer Cowtown fans are always full of whine

[pantsonfire]

@Jon

…rtainly didn’t play that way in last year’s GC. Obviously there are no guarantees.One final note of interest is that this is the first week of the year where the leading four MOP candidates as I see them, in order, played poorly. That would be Zach, Kelly, Adams and Brady, although the latter didn’t have control over receiving less touches after falling behind. So no movement in that race this week.

Learn your geography Jon. Travelling West from Toronto to Regina, Alberta & BC is considerably longer than going there from Winnipeg. From all your whining about the East having 1 hr trips to the other Eastern cities that is completely ignoring that Winnipeg to Regina is a 1 hr flight & to either of the Alberta cities is a 2 hr flight. So 1 trip there plus Regina negates the advantage of the Eastern trips. And doesn’t begin to cover the distance differences between trips west from the East vs Winnipeg. I know, math is hard. A simple eye test, which you are fond of, is all you need. Or buy a map & a ruler. The East, BC & Alberta teams going across country have return trips of 8 & 9 hours. Winnipeg never crosses more than 1 time zone once - to BC. A frequent flyer you’re obviously not. Easiest schedule in the CFL - Winnipeg. Enough already.

As for the Zach vs Kelly comparison. Argos have yet to lose a game when Kelly played the whole game. Kelly finds a way to win even without his best stuff- most recent example? Yesterday. Zach hasn’t - most recent example? He was as bad yesterday in the 2nd half as he was good in the 1st. So praise him all you want for being lights out early, or for 3 Qtrs vs Ottawa. Couldn’t get the team over the goal line when it counted. And the BC loss - pitched a complete game stinker. The best player on the Bombers this year has been Oliveira with Demski a close 2nd. Zach has laid an egg in 1/4 of his 12 starts this year. And that’s ignoring the loss in Regina.

[Jon]

@pantsonfire

…d half as he was good in the 1st. So praise him all you want for being lights out early, or for 3 Qtrs vs Ottawa. Couldn’t get the team over the goal line when it counted. And the BC loss - pitched a complete game stinker. The best player on the Bombers this year has been Oliveira with Demski a close 2nd. Zach has laid an egg in 1/4 of his 12 starts this year. And that’s ignoring the loss in Regina.

I thought I had been through the travel issue with you before but maybe it was somebody else. You are dead wrong on that. You are the one using the eye test and it’s not working. Math is hard I admit and that is why I let those better at it than me do it for me.

On another thread maybe a year ago we discussed all things travel. I took a couple of hours out of curiosity looking on line for information. I posted links to several research papers and studies. As you might expect there was no study or research papers I could find on the CFL. Nevertheless there were many on other leagues including soccer, the NFL, the NHL, MLB and the NBA. It is easy to apply the basic findings from the research out there to the CFL however.

Generally the findings were as follows:

• Eastern based teams have a marked travel advantage over Central and Western teams, both in mileage and frequency;

• Time zone changes of 1-3 hours have zero effect on the performance of world class athletes mostly in their 20’s;

It’s been studied time and time again and the results are always the same.

In the NHL, NFL and NBA all of the Eastern teams are at the bottom when it comes to rating travel difficulties. Generally their rivals are in much closer proximity than the rivals of Central and Western teams which is a simple function of population and yes geography, the subject I apparently don’t know well.

A perfect example I remember from the NHL is that one year Winnipeg had the hardest travel schedule and were second in another. Calgary was first at least twice. All the Western teams were in the top 10 while none of the Eastern teams were even in the top half. Indeed it was only last year that Toronto didn’t have to leave their own province for 6 weeks in a row. Winnipeg and Saskatchewan and BC have to leave their province for every away game. The distance between Toronto and Hamilton is shorter than the distance half of the Saskatchewan fans have to drive to get to a home game. It’s simple geography. Just look at the distances between cities and the schedule and do some calculations and you will see what I mean.

In the CFL without any question the 5 Western teams have a much harder travel schedule than the 4 Eastern teams. I have charts and graphs and science that back up what I am saying and you don’t want to mess with charts and graphs. It’s one thing to banter back and forth about which team is playing the best or is most likely to win the Cup as that is all speculation and opinion. Not the subject of the wear and tear of travel
however which is factual and has been studied to death. I would link the studies I previously posted but I have no idea where they are but you can easily search on site or on the internet so that you will be able to develop an opinion based on facts, math and geography.

[pantsonfire]

Quote the studies, Jon. Or stop with the fairytales. The amount of travel by the 32 NFL teams are published yearly, if you take the time to look by insiders, & general publications like USA Today. How about the NFL’s Pro Football Network May 20/23? These are their stats. Seattle @ 31,600 miles, 36 Time zones, has the toughest travel schedule. Followed by SF, Miami, LA Rams, LA Chargers, Baltimore Ravens, Arizona, KC, Tampa Bay & New England to round out the top 10. What is the thing that jumps out, Jon? Outside of KC ALL of these teams are either on the West Coast or East Coast - the far West or Eastern states.

Of the bottom 6 clubs who have the most favourable schedules, Minnesota 13,236 miles, 16 time zones, Chicago 12,253 miles, 12 time zones & Green Bay 11,956 miles, 16 time zones are all there. What do they all have in common? Like Winnipeg, they all are in the Central Time Zone. Detroit, who rates 7th in easiest schedule is just barely outside of the Central Time Zone. Besides the above noted Pro Football Network, even Sports Illustrated publishes these stats.

Seattle, like their close neighbour in BC, had the longest travel schedule in 2022 as well @ 29,446 miles & 34 time zones. BC again travels the most this year.

Just because you like to throw out generalizations without providing any proof whatsoever, it doesn’t change the fact that a central location is extremely advantageous. In the case of a league like the NFL, the Vikings, just south of Winnipeg, to the tune of 18,000+ travel miles & 20 time zones this year. Until you actually present REAL figures instead of heresay, it is just another “Poor Me” Bomber tale about how hard done Zach & the boys are. Coming from a diehard Bomber fan - hardly surprising, Jon.

BTW The travel figures for the 2022-23 NHL season top ten (in miles) were:

Oilers 51,962, Florida 48,570, Vegas 47,752, Van 47,452, SJ 46,405, Anaheim 45,918, Seattle 44,848, Nsh 44,742, Cgy 44,593, Dallas 44,562. Jets were 15th, 42,013 miles, 2 spots back of another Central team, Minnesota. Any similarities? Seems that, outside of Nashville & Dallas, pretty much the teams furthest from the Center either way dominate.

[Jon]

@pantsonfire

… for the 2022-23 NHL season top ten (in miles) were:Oilers 51,962, Florida 48,570, Vegas 47,752, Van 47,452, SJ 46,405, Anaheim 45,918, Seattle 44,848, Nsh 44,742, Cgy 44,593, Dallas 44,562. Jets were 15th, 42,013 miles, 2 spots back of another Central team, Minnesota. Any similarities? Seems that, outside of Nashville & Dallas, pretty much the teams furthest from the Center either way dominate.

Laughable. You do some research please. I have already posted my proof and am
not going to spend the time again. You can try some common sense too. The East always has it easier in general travel wise as I have said. There is the odd outlier in the odd year in some leagues but that is it. In the NHL paragraph, your last one, you prove my point as there are no Eastern teams except for Florida. I am also aware from my research that Florida and to some extent Tampa have more difficult travel schedules even though they are East because of the relative lack of teams near them. The teams on the Eastern seaboard all have puppy like travel schedules.

Your false theory about the center couldn’t possibly apply to the CFL. The distance between Winnipeg and Toronto, their closest Eastern rival, is greater than the distance between any of the East teams and so is the distance Winnipeg must travel to all of the Western teams except for Regina which is still 555 kms away. As the self proclaimed math and geography expert, if you add the distances all teams must travel all of the West teams travel far more than any Eastern team. And to make the already huge difference more egregious the East teams play each other disproportionately and that gives them an even bigger travel advantage than they would have already if each team played each other home and home. What is it you can’t understand about facts and numbers here?

I felt terrible about Toronto’s (and Hamilton’s) travel woes last year when Toronto didn’t leave the province for 6 weeks and the two teams played each other 4 times in 5 weeks. They must have been bushed from all those bus rides. It’s not even close and no spin you give this well researched issue will make it so. If I didn’t know better I would think you are arguing only for the sake of arguing as you don’t have a valid point here.

[LetsGoBlue]

Jon, just ignore the troll - his mission has been clear for years. Notice how he didn’t post for the 5 straight weeks we were winning, and he has now come out to post?
That is pretty much the definition of a troll.

He’s shown over & over again that he knows very little about this team. Jeffcoat & Wilson are bit players, lol!

[Ticat28]

I am a bit dizzy after reading the Travel Dialog but want to say this:
Given the opportunity to play in the CFL (or any pro sport league) the Last Thing to blame for non performance is Travel!
Come on man… grow a set.

[pantsonfire]

@LetsGoBlue

…Jon, just ignore the troll - his mission has been clear for years. Notice how he didn’t post for the 5 straight weeks we were winning, and he has now come out to post?That is pretty much the definition of a troll.He’s shown over & over again that he knows very little about this team. Jeffcoat & Wilson are bit players, lol!

Do the math. Support Jon all you want with his “balanced” schedule to eliminate the advantages of the East, do the math. It’s not beyond either of you to add up 8 numbers for the road games between CFL clubs. It’s obvious Jon isn’t going to do that simple test because of his severe bias. Air miles (& even air km😃) are available on dozens of web sites for all of the cities. All it takes is simple addition of 8 numbers, Blue. You don’t need to know how to subtract, multiply or divide. But why bother with facts if it gets in the way of promoting the “Poor old hard done by Bombers” schtick. I’m done talking to Jon because he never presents references.

In the NFL they play 17 games, no more than 9 road games. Seattle & Minnesota are closest in proximity to Vancouver in Winnipeg. Pick up a schedule of the 2 teams & do the math. A difference of 18,000+ road miles should be easy to reconcile, no. Likewise, the fact that the Lions cover as many air miles in their 4 trips to the East this year as the Bombers travel in their entire schedule. How is that possible? Do the math.

I do take vacations, Blue. I would highly recommend “Eurobike” if you are interested in bike trips overseas. I travel back home for extended stays when I get time. And my niece is married to a Swiss fellow. So sorry I missed your winning streak.