There was an item on a site last week regarding the Bilss in Toronto and all it said was that the Ti-Cats BEAT the Bills when they played in 1961. Looked all over but couldn't find out if this is true. Can anyone shed some light on this. Keep in mind the outcome does make sense. Ti-Cats had a great team back then and in the pre-O.J. days the Bills sucked. Also it was only their 2nd year in existence. Thanks for any help you can give me. It's not my fault I live in Calgary.
There was a bunch of games played CFL vs NFL and Hamilton came out the only victor, even if it was against the Bills.
Aug. 12, 1950 Ottawa N.Y. Giants 20, Ottawa (CFL) 6
Aug. 11, 1951 Ottawa N.Y. Giants 38, Ottawa (CFL) 6
Aug. 5, 1959 Toronto Chicago Cardinals 55, Toronto (CFL) 26
Aug. 6, 1960 Toronto Pittsburgh 43, Toronto (CFL) 16
Aug. 2, 1961 Toronto St. Louis 36, Toronto (CFL) 7
Aug. 5, 1961 Montreal Chicago 34, Montreal (CFL) 16
Aug. 8, 1961 Hamilton Hamilton (CFL) 38, Buffalo 21
The Bills were in the upstart AFL when the game was played, so technically the CFL has never beaten an NFL team.
Remember listening to the game on the radio, couldn't afford the $2 or whatever bleacher seats were in those days. Someone correct me if I am wrong but they played under both rules, switching same at the half. If I recall the Cats did well with the American rules and the extra down.
Check out the connection below and you will see that the Bills were not the cream of the crop in their own league. Unless you are a die hard Bills fan, very few of the names on the roster will jump out at you.[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/1961_roster.htm]http://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... roster.htm[/url]
Yes it's true we were the only team to beat a US team. But we should remember that we played versus the Buffalo Bills of the AFL, not the NFL. And this was after the AFL had been in operation for only one season. They were not comparable to the NFL at all at that time. In the games versus the NFL, none were really close contests. In some, the CFL teams kept it close under Canadian rules, but were not able to keep up with their counterparts under American rules.
Stevehvh: How good were the Argos and Als back in the early 60's. If I remember correctly they sucked as well. The East was pretty well Ottawa and Hamilton with Hamilton winning mostbetween the two. MATELOT: Re: ticket prices. was at the Grey Cup in Vancouver in 1974. Had just moved West from Oakville and I ahd a friend send me 4 tickets. Thirty-five yard line about 20 rows up(just under the cover at PNE stadium which was great cause it rained all game). Cost-$17.50 each. Outstanding. Went to the game in 96 and they were $100 or $110 and that was for last row on the camera side at the end of the end zone. But what a game!!!
Hamilton was the class of the league back in the early 6o's. It didn't hurt that they were actually starting with what really amounted to about 20 or more imports. Players like DT John Barrow, DT Angelo Mosca, WR Tommy Joe Coffey, OT Ellison Kelly and QB Bernie Faloney had all become Canadian citizens allowing then to play as non-imports. Faloney could play as a non-import as that was before the current QB (stupid) rule. Hamilton also had American raised OG Bill Danychuk, OT Bronco Nagurski Jr, FB Gerry McDougall DE Ron Ray and DB's Billy Waite and Ted Page who were able to get their Canadian Citizenship because one or both parents were Canadians. This was at at time CFL teams were required to start 10 Canadians.
So the Hamilton team that played the Buffalo Bills was a very solid team and could have probably matched up much better with the NFL teams then Toronto and Montreal of those days.
You’re right, the Argos and Als weren’t too hot in 1961 either. The Argos finished first in 1960, last in 1961. We finished last in 1960, but first in '61. Funny, I checked and in '61, though we were 10-4 on the season, we actually had a much worse points for-against ratio than the Riders or Argos or Als that year.
I take your point… perhaps we would have fared better versus the NFL than the Argos or Als did. I’m not totally convinced though. My basic point was just that we shouldn’t get too excited about having beaten an AFL team when that league was in its infancy and considered by many at the time to be a sort of sandlot circuit.
What’s notable to me is that in those Argos and Als matches, the NFL put up mediocre teams too, clubs with roughly .500 records. You have to go back to 1951 to find a match between strong Ottawa and NY clubs. I wonder what the thinking was to have mostly poor to middling teams play those games…
Art Baker of '61 Bills ended up as a Ticat in '63
Was Yoho National Park named after Mack Yoho - I believe he also played in the CFL (Ottawa?)
'61 Argos were not last in CFL East; we beat them in memorable 2nd game of 2 game total point Eastern final to go to '61 Grey Cup.
I agree re '61 Ticats, loaded with Imports who were considered "Canadians". In fact, one could argue that Ticats took such advantage of the Import/Non-Import rules of those days it made us into the dynasty of the '60s.
Of course the Ticats took advantage of that rule. But, that's what rules are for. They are created to serve a purpose, and if some teams are wise enough to use them to their advantage, so be it.
Hamilton was wise enough to recruit players who had both ability and character. Some of those players saw an advantage in staying long term, some becoming valued Canadian citizens.
It worked to the benefit of the team, the city of Hamilton, and, I would argue, the country.
Personally, I would love to see that whole concept returned to the CFL. There was no downside to the way it was handled.
I thought it was a good system, allowing players who wanted to settle in Canada and become Canadians a bit of a break in their later football years. Especially if we ever get up to ten teams, the Canadian content will be deluded.
If I recall correctly the Argos had players such as RB Dick Shatto, WR/P Dave Mann, QB Nobby Wirkowski, OT Billy Shipp and DB Jim Rountree becoming Canadian citizens and playing as what we call nowadays non-imports as well.
apparently the bills-ticat game wasn't close. the bills scored two meaningless touchdowns late. i think the actual score was 39-21.
canadian rules first half; yankee rules second. civic stadium.
ralph wilson asked ralph sazio for a rematch. our ralph said no.
A rematch and our Ralph said no. Ok, no wonder Ralph Wilson wants to set up shop in Toronto.
Merlin, you're quite right, the Argos were not last in the east in 1961, they were third and the Als were last. How could I forget that Eastern Final? It was the first game(s) I can remember being interested in as a new young Ticats fan.
I do remember Art Baker. Interesting how there has been a flow of players back and forth between Hamilton and Buffalo. Allen Smith was another Bills RB who came a little north and made a quick impact.
Earl, I didn't know a rematch was proposed. That's cool.
steve, I didn't know either, just going by what ticatguy above said.
re-Yes it's true we were the only team to beat a US team. But we should remember that we played versus the Buffalo Bills of the AFL, not the NFL. And this was after the AFL had been in operation for only one season. They were not comparable to the NFL at all at that time. In the games versus the NFL, none were really close contests. In some, the CFL teams kept it close under Canadian rules, but were not able to keep up with their counterparts under American rules.-------- that was in the 1950,s the game has changed alot since then, imo it would be interesting to see what would the outcome be today?
I think where the NFL teams would have a problem today is with the 3 downs where they would almost automatically expect 90 percent of the time the CFL team to pass on first down since it would be like 2nd and 10 in 4 down ball. Just what I think. And of course knowing how the extra man is used on offense and defense.
With 4 downs being played, CFL teams would not have a chance I don't think.
Re earl-With 4 downs being played, CFL teams would not have a chance I don't think.--------- I concur earl, but i would say CFL team's could give the lower half of nfl teams a game, WITH cfl rosters AS they are, Nothing stopping a CFL team from bulking up for 4 down football, to bring the roster size to same as nfl teams. --- IMHO IF the CFL was to WIN a game against the nfl it would be the best thing that could happen to CFL