My question would be why so positive when there has been little to be positive until last night? Why discount obvious shortcomings as unimportant? Why defend pathetic play? Why refuse to acknowledge what other posters are writing when things go well but keep harping on the obvious truth that those you disagree with stated when things were going poorly. Seems to me those folks are the closed minded lemmings that need to get perspective. It won't matter what I say to those closed minded folks from here on in, their minds are made up that I am negative about everything. That attitude only proves their closed mindedness
And maybe we can have a separate groupie forum so that reasonable debate could be had. There have been a few posters that disagree with me that have acually taken the time and effort to engage in debate, not many but a few. Those people are the only ones I'm interested in hearing from. We'll never agree on everthing but that doesn't mean we have to bbe juvenile bullies and try to drive each other off the boards.
It's part of being a fan convert. But you wouldn't know that would you? You want intellectual discourse, join a debating society. You come around here talkin down our team you should expect a little heat no? It's so much more fun to believe and be hopeful, give it a try sometime!
Well, I suppose considering the trend of your recent posts, this is directed towards me, among others; so I will try to clarify the situation in as simple language as possible...
I don't claim to be; I am a fan, but I do have more important things in my life...
- claim to be football experts
I've never claimed to be an "expert", but I've watched my fair share of football and know what's what; I've certainly had to preoccupy myself with much more compex challenges that assessing football team performances--it's not exactly rocket science.
- believe their opinions to be sacred
When did I ever state that?
- never have anything positive to say
Maybe you're not referring to me considering that I have addressed positive aspects as well.
- hide behind "freedom of speech"
freedom of speech is a right, not something that one hides behind; I fear living in a world where people like you who concoct petty justifications for stifling other peoples right to express opinions are given the power to do so--sadly, that time appears to be not far off...
- have little tolerance to those who challenge them
What, like you and the rest of the "real fan" clique here? The hypocracy is astonishing!
I can't believe this small group of posters attacking Argo convert for having an opinion different than theirs. Man you guys are unbelievable. Up until last night the Cats were winless. There are many reasons to be negative when your team has not won. Maybe the negativity was too much for Ticat boosters to stomach but it is totally acceptable and quite frankly expected. The Spec even got in on the action. Now that they have won a game things could start moving in the other direction a little but it's going to take more than one game to turn this boat around.
I happen to agree with Argoconvert more than you guys. I guess that makes me part of the enemy. Maybe even an Argo fan.
I've always considered myself a little bit of a rebel and not afraid to speak my mind. I guess that's a bad thing.
You guys might be great fans but blind faith is not always a good thing.
just gets my juices flowing to dig deep for my own knowledge and sometimes my wit. if they are here are to be objective that's ok and they have the right to voice their opinion or displeasure.
the ones are here just to be a smart ass without any knowledge of the game or just trying to find an argument will show thier faces soon enough.
i got no problem with argoconvert or gardisten or anybody even though i don't agree with a lot of what they say, just hope they're all open minded enough to have the same respect back.
AC, I don't think any of us are "groupie" fans who are content with all the losing, but my Mommy taught me that if I didn't have something good to say it was better to say nothing at all.
Seriously though, I don't have issue with people voicing their frustration about the team losing. My only issue is with people who make it personal (and you can deny it all you want but there are people who DEFINATELY make it personal) and question certain players' heart and work ethic. If someone feels that a player isn't good enough and we need to get better at that position that is fine, but when you have posters who start personal smear campaigns about players and say they'd be willing to lose just so that guy wouldn't play that borders on the ridiculous. I choose to focus on the positives and I realize that with a team that has so many new players the mental mistakes are going to be high and it's going to take time to work out the kinks. If that makes me a groupie then so be it.
i don't mind anyone on this web, they can speak their mind and if we disagree fine, as long as the intentions are about drsting football and the team.
the only thing that makes me laugh are certain fans who whine about stuff like "until timmy chang starts. i'm not going to any more games" enjoy your cause but if means missing a cat game over it i can't see who's gonna take you serious because obviously if management would have listened to that, maas wouldn't have put up 3 td's friday.
by the way there was over 24000 fans last game that did show up.
With all due respect, BG, no one is questioning whether you have a RIGHT to be positive. It's a given that you do. You are also one of the most open-minded and welcoming members of this forum. Anyone that attacks you, and people like you, for being positive is rightly and promptly banned. The more compelling squestion is whether posters have the RIGHT to be negative.
One of the hallmarks of a successful and civilized forum is it's level of support for diversity of opinion. Not necessarily support for the opinions themselves, but support for the idea that diverse opinions and the people that express them can coexist.
There is a big difference between a poster like Argoconvert and one like Stox, although some call them all trolls. I have not read all of ACs posts, but from what I've seen:
-He presents a reasonable argument (Maas, and the team, have underperformed - an opinion shared by many)
-He doesn't use vulgarity in his posts.
-He doesn't specifically target other posters.
I would argue that he does not break any of the rules of the forum. If there is a problem with his posting, it's that he expresses the same few opinions relentlessly. Boring but hardly a violation of the rules.
A guy like Argoconvert shouldn't, and I'm sure doesn't, expect to be loved and embraced on a forum of fans. He should expect that people will argue his position. He should expect that some people will not like him. I think he handles all of that well and within the guidelines of the forum.
There are others, in response to people like AC, are far more likely to engage in name-calling and disrespectful behaviour. I presume because they are expressing the majority opinion, they feel the rules don't apply to them. And, in the way of these things, they don't get called on it. The black and gold wall of silence, I guess you could say.
Is it really unacceptable to criticize specific players? If you remove anyone that's ever attacked a player, there would be perhaps a handful of people left. Even the people that defend the sacred cows (McManus, Lancaster, Maas, Hitchcock, etc.) are quick to criticize the likes of Yeast, Shaw, Brady and Boreham.
When the team is underperforming, why should a fan be prevented from saying that. Of course excessive negativity accomplishes nothing. So what - is the purpose of these forums to fix the team or to yak about it? Who among us is so small of character that they can't accept that other people don't share all of our opinions.
I've heard it said many times before that the greatest problem with all forums of this type is that the most prolific twenty five posters immediately demarcate a narrow range of acceptable opinions in all situations, and then spend an ever-increasing amount of time trying to humiliate any member that doesn't embrace them.
Trolls, Fairweather fans. REAL fans. Give me a frickin break. Love the man that cares enough to express to you his opinion, and he that cares enough to ask you for yours.
BG, your mother was a wise woman, and her teaching is evident in your character. My daddy taught me not to let "the man" tell me what to think (it was the 60's - what can I say).
All you so called 'positive' posters need to get over yourselves. You all come on here and act like you own this forum and we should all bow down to you all because you have 10000 posts which is 90% whinning about trolls and internet bullying and all kinds of childish bs and then you lay out rules and tell everyone how they're supposed to post. It's like grow up.
Thank you, sec8 I appreciate that. Great post. I think you nailed it. Everyone has the right to express their own opinion (my Mom also taught me that..lol. she is a wise woman) and I don't generally engage in the back and forth with people (anymore..lol) because I find it fairly close to bashing my head against a brick wall. I don't find fault with most of AC's posts because, as you say, he usualy presents his arguments in a rational and respectful way even though I don't usually agree with what he says..lol. I do have to say that I have taken quite a bit of flack for being positive on this site at times.
My issue is with people who come on and make claims like "Jesse Lumsden is overrated and he's only in the CFL because of his fathers connections" a la transformer (who btw has been notably absent recently). I don't usually call anyone a troll because I think that word is overused. To me a troll is someone who deliberatly baits the same poster again and again to elicit a specific response. I don't think people who voice their frustration are necessarily trolls. I actually quite enjoy reading AC's posts because at least he has a sense of humour about things. Some people make me laugh with the irrational posts they make. It's funny to me.