The "stadium" crowd vs. the "arena" crowd

Much has been said by Mayor Fred and -some- councillors about how a football stadium way down in the extreme corner of the city will suddenly bring on a re-birth of the whole downtown core. Rubbish I say......and here's why.

Unlike professional hockey and basketball, football fans come dressed for, well, football and are not very to be heading out to a fancy dinner or the theatre either before the game or afterwards. Football fans typically thrive on stadium food and beverages (including booze).......and then head straight home and raid the beer fridge after cleaning up and shedding their fan gear.

And like it or not, for a stadium/football franchise to be successful, they have to maximize their precious few opportunities to sell their food products and ares to their audience. (including parking ). ........and that also includes high visibility for their sponsors both at the events and by means of high volumes of traffic which views their advertising on a daily basis even when the venue is dark.

Any comparison to a venue such as, let's say, the Air Canada Centre can not be made because of the demographic of their clients in that venue........between basketball, hockey, lacrosse and concerts, it's a rare night the venue is dark and most customers not only spend money inside the arena on various food, beverages and stuff, but because of the very nature of the events, are most likely already dressed in attire which is appropriate for staying out "on the town" when the event is over. (ie: dinner, shopping etc)

This is why we need the stadium in a location which affords all possible revenue streams such as huge parking lots, a captive audience which spends cash at the venue, high visibility the grow the customer base and to maximize sponsorship revenues. Building a stadium where it has the best chance of making money for the city and it's tenants would now bring much needed dollars to fund the "city building" in other areas.

As it stands now, this West Harbour stadium location has all the earmarks of being a massive disaster that is going to be a drain on the taxpayers for decades and decades to come.

Just look at how successful the venues are around Hamilton,which due to a great location, ease of access, captive audience are self contained are able to maximize all revenue streams available to them. (Marineland, Wild Waterworks, Flamborough Downs, Canada's Wonderland, African Lion Safari and even now the Niagara wineries.......

Why can't Hamilton learn this business sense and start making profits off our ventures instead of setting them up for failure. As Bob Young said last week, the taxpayers of Hamilton should DEMAND this stadium be located where it can be a profit center so it can fund other worthy projects in the city.

...........it makes sense to me

Sorry deer I go to hockey games dressed for hockey. So do many or the other Bulldogs fans I see there. I see just ass large of a percentage of hockey jerseys as football jerseys when I go to hockey or football games. Your argument doesn't pass the visibility test IMO

He's comparing the ACC crowds with that of any football crowd -- I'd say he's pretty close to being right on. That said, comparing the ACC hockey crowd to any other hockey crowd -- save for maybe the New York Rangers -- is a bit of a stretch.

Try and find someone not wearing a Flames sweater at Pengrowth Saddledome.

See a lot of hockey jerseys there too

I agree for the most part, however I would point out that on a weekend me and my friends will go out after the game. As is now that means getting in the car from IWS and going to Meadowlands area.

Now if the stadium had appropriate amenities, I could see us sticking around. But I just wanted to make the point that there are at least some people who don't go straight home.

You missed the larger point...........a football stadium way the hell down in the bowels of the extreme north end will do NOTHING for some sort of economic development of that area .........especially with the make-up and spending habits of a stadium/football crowd a few times a year.

it's going to be a huge money pit if it ever happens (which I highly doubt now)

To have a chance, it's got to go where it can make money......or forget it...it's simple economics, a point the Mayor and a few of his blind followers are apparantly lost on

Didn't miss the point, I responded to another point in you post, I actually agree the Rheem site won't do anything to increase attendance or revenues

"Shared" stadium idea being discussed now on the Matt Homes Show......900 CHML

The word is that the TIGERCATS want to build a stadium in OAKVILLE not HAMILTON. The next thing is Hamilton will be threatened that the team will move there out of Hamilton if they dont get thier way! What a joke! Hamilton is not a wanted place by any team right now it seems. Hamilton is always laughed at about the NHL, Hamilton is being said that they are losing the hamilton Bulldogs to LAVAL soon, and now our great Bob Young wants out of here! Think about this very much because if This team would move I would move and that means another ex Hamilton relative! Whats going on here! Nobody respects hamilton! :thdn:

If thats whats best for the Ticats then so be it. Cancel the Pan Am Games and save a ton of money. Bob may actually be doing us a favour but he'll not see me in his new digs EVER

I really have no opinion with regards to the harbour location. I just want whatevers good for both sides. That being said....I would vehemently oppose a shared stadium outside the city or a stadium located in Missisauga or Oakville etc. anywhere except Hamilton. That would be the death of the Tigercats as far as I'd be concerned. They wouldn't be the "Hamilton" Tigercats which we all know is a team with a long history, a team that I have called my own for 40 some odd years. And I imagine it would be the end of my support for the CFL as a whole.

The Oakville Ti-Cats ?????

I'd Have thought Mississauga first ...... BOB just change the team name when you move them ..keep the colors but change the name

Before your rumour continues, as we already see happening, can you substantiate this or is this just wild speculation?

Whoa!! Better hope Samwise Gamgee brings along enough rations! That sounds like a quest through middle-earth.

A lot of hyperbole to say "8 minutes off the 403", or "10 minute walk from the Sheraton".

While I can see how a captive audience would help the Ti-Cats bottom line, there are plenty of venues outside of hockey that are situated in bustling centres with many dining and entertainment options.

The bars at Liberty Village are well attended pre and post game by TFC supporters. The Argos and Jays play at the dome right next to 100s of establishments on Front and the entertainment district. The Alouettes are right downtown in Montreal not far off from St-Laurent, St-Denis and St-Catherine Streets. Don't the BC Lions play out of a downtown dome right next to GM Place?

The Als have gone as far as to invest in their downtown location with no naming rights, no significant parking revenue and no major highway visibility.

I can see if the Ti-Cats feel downtown Hamilton in particular can't accommodate a stadium like the CNE grounds do for BMO Field or McGill University does for Percival Molson Stadium.

I support any initiatives that make downtown Hamilton more accessible and a more desirable place to live work and play. Many things have to happen together for this to happen. I feel the Tiger-Cats don't want to be the first ones on the dance floor and want to see commitments in place for LRT funding, GO service expansion and better vehicular access before warming up to the West Harbour location.

bob has probably tipped Mayor Fred off as which sites
developers have told him they are interested in

and if a state-of-the-art stadium with lots of box seats,
food stands and on site parking were built at any of them

the City would be able to get fair market value rent
from parties who hold events at such a stadium

More people will go to events there
than go now to Ivor Wynne Stadium

and they will spend a lot more money
per person at such a fine modern facilty

a percentage of which will be shared by the City
with the Tiger Cats and other event holders there.

That is what a win/win solution looks like.

Let's face it Mayor Fred, commercial developers just
don't want to get involved in the land-locked Rheem site.

and you need them to upgrade the stadium
for Tiger Cats purposes long into the future.

Deerhunter:
Just to re-iterate.....the more I read and hear the more I wonder if any Hamilton-area site can be profitable for the Cats.
One big problem is the lousy attendance figures this team has had, even last year, despite some great match-ups and an improved team.
But the biggest problem could very well be that the Caretaker is having a tough time finding backers for his 50 million contribution. The fact that the stadium site may never be changed doesn't help...and neither does the fact that the Caretaker has not seen fit to study any other site in Hamilton to see if it could be profitable.
But for some reason this shared stadium idea keeps re-surfacing. Now talk about Oakville is floating around?
I'm just sayin'.........

:lol:

Actually, just checking google maps, it's a 6 minute drive (2k) from 403 ( mains st. e exit) and a spec reporter did the walk in 8 minutes from King and Hess, (Hess village) a proposed LRT stop.

Either route is still short.

This whole conversation gets mighty frustrating when people use such gross exaggerations. I enjoy a colourful, creative analogy as much as anyone, but to try and paint the West Harbour as off in some god-forsaken corner of the planet is just idiotic. I'm sorry. Especially when, apparently, the better option is somewhere near Centeniall and Red Hill Creek.

I'm all for looking critically at all of the proposed sites, but some element of restraint should be employed.

If I can run, yes, run -- as in running shoes -- from the closest highway exit to the destination in about 10 minutes, then that should be considered 'close proximity to highway'. You can argue size of roads, one way vs. two way, etc., but this is about as close as it gets. A mere 600m more than the distance from Skydome to Union Station.

Union Station to Skydome is a hike actually. Not a pleasant one at that if you are taking the indoor route. One of the reasons I stay away. Its more about not being able to get there from Hamilton and maybe I exaggerate because I'm always in such a bad mood by the time I get out of Union station (the biggest hell hole in Southern Ontario BTW) but it isn't close to a short walk