The real problem with the Riders....

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Meow :lol:

it was a pretty bad collapse, but at least they tool the season series by over 20

Can't see this team ever winning a cup because of Durant. They might pull one off in spite of Durant, see 09 & 10, but that is as good as it is going to get. The guy refuses to play to his strength, which is getting out of the F....pocket and make plays. As a drop back passer, he is as bad as they get, and they have no hope of ever being elite with his refusal to make it happen, instead of hoping it will with his long bomb play once every 10 plays. And that constant pout and finger pointing at receivers is getting real old. That said, I can't say there is anyone around to replace him at the limited effeiciency that he now has, so what you see is what you are going to get in Sask. for a few more years.

Tell us, seriously, what exactly do you expect from a QB?

DD has looked pretty good this year. A little more mobility would be nice. He brought the team to the GC in 2009, and by no means was that loss on him...I don't see how one can even say that...that was horrid OC play calling the last 20 minutes of the game, NOT him. 2010 he brought them to the GC...they lost. Not that I am saying DD is AC, but AC has not exactly been perfect in the GC...was it bad that the Als held on to him? Everybody saw how bad this team was in 2011...well, you know what...it was basically the same team in 2010...perhaps a healthy DD in 2010 was the most significant reason they even made it to the cup. What really changed in 2011...no Andy, and DD played 2/3 of it hurt.

How much do you expect him to do? The knock on DD has been his TD to interception ratio...which is 4-1 this year...that is not good enough for you? He is on pace for to push for 5000 yards...is this not acceptable? He has the fewest INTs for a starting QB...bad? Yes DD should use his legs a bit more, but I also don't want him to turn into Nealon Green. He is a great leader, and seems to be really improving this year with Khari Jones, and just entering his prime years as a QB. This season they have given DD the green light to run if he sees it, but they want him to be a passer first. This year instead of coaches saying 'stay in the pocket' they are teaching how to move around in the pocket better...something that Henry Burris has always been great at and should be used as an example. DD is rolling out a bit, should get out of the pocket a little more, but he is moving. He is going to improve more and more with a QB coach...we saw that when the Riders had Crandell as a QB coach...funny how DD went downhill w/o a QB coach huh.

He is now in his 4th year as a starter, and seen how many OCs? How many HCs? He now has a decent OL. He appears to have some stability in receivers. The HC / president mess is gone. He has a RB (who they need to use more than 10 times like last week). He has a QB coach...and one who has coach really well on passes to the flats...where DD has always struggled in the past, plus has improved him night and day for moving in the pocket and finding lanes. The play calling has been fairly good thus far, with the exceptions of late in the game...that ain't on him.

You are expecting way too much from one person if you don't think DD is cutting it. He now has better tools in place and is clearly showing signs of improvement. Pretty much any club in the CFL would race to sign DD, expect for maybe BC. Are there better QBs...always are.

DD has some issues and one seems to be not moving up in the pocket when the middle opens or to use his legs to get outside the pocket to either help him buy more time or being short to get a better view down field. He also doesn't seem to be setting his feet as much on his throws. While his Oline is light years better, he has to make those reads faster or use his legs more. The Oline can only do so much. As I stated before, Drew Willy looked good and went through his reads very well in the preseason.

Not long after DD took the number spot I started to say whenever we had 1st down or are 2nd and long in a critical point in the game "Darian we only need to get a first down", that is throw it just deep enough to get a first down. DD would consistantly go long and it drove me nuts. Im sure my dad hates me doing this for the last 3.5 yrs. He has gotten better but he will still fall back on the big play. Take what they give you, take more time off the clock and keep then honset with a deep pass once in a while. Another habit is to hesitate instead of running, keep looking for the open guy and then run too late for a much smaller gain.

Finally losing Fantuz and Bagg is a big hit. Leaves use Dressler and Getz as his gotto recievers. He has to share the ball with Sisco, Hill, etc. they need more touches. Smith looked good on that TD showing some good speed. We have been missing a deep threat for a very long time. I'm talking tall fast reciever. We had the guy last year who got hurt in his first game, can't recall his name but something along those lines. Jeffers-Harris maybe is the fix for that?

We need some sneak plays. Use Sheets more.

[quote="Starbuck23"]We had the guy last year who got hurt in his first game, can't recall his name but something along those lines. /quote]

I believe you are referring to Wheelwright.

I do agree with all of your post, but what I have liked this year is that they are using a lot of shorter passes, and I am hoping that will rub off on him in late situations.

Its not entirely Durant's fault that he is constantly staying in the pocket. Our OC should know Druant's strength which is running and throwing on the run, and use that. He is calling plays that call for Durant to stay in the pocket. I question how much you know about football if you think its all on Durant to get out of the pocket.

In every passing play there is a set number of steps a QB is set to drop back and then he is supposed to throw. There are 3 step drops there are 5 step drops and there are deeper drops as well. Now.. there are also bootlegs which is when the QB rolls out of the pocket.
So now lets say you call a 5 step drop, the offensive line knows this and will block accordingly. On a 5 step drop you have to make sure that pressure doesn't get around the ends because that is prime territory for a QB sack. On a 5 step drop pressure of any kind is a back thing.. as well as any deep drops. On a three step drop the QB is supposed to do three steps and do a quick hitter. On this route O-linemen will let guys go around the end sometimes because they need to protect up the middle pressure. The and with three steps the pressure coming around the outside will usually go past the QB and then have to wrap around to get him. The QB should have released the ball in this amount of time.
On a bootleg the line will crash the way the Qb is rolling and try to protect from players getting to him in the flats.

So if Durant is to roll out on plays where the offense isn't calling it his line can't protect him and he will be all alone in the flats. There for Durant stays in the pocket which is where he should receive the best protection. He is allowed to take off if there are running lanes. The problem is that when they call the 3/5 step drops is that the defense's job is to close off running lanes so if Durant was to try and leave the pocket he would be tackle most times. He is a smart runner and doesn't run where there is nothing.

The problem lies with the play callers. They are doing two things VERY wrong! especially when we get a lead. First thing they are doing wrong is that they are calling to many plays in which lead to Durant being in the pocket. (Not Durants fault) and Two they aren't calling enough quick hitter routes. They call for our players to run medium to deep routes far to often.

If you go back and watch how Hamilton came back on us.. it was pure short passes. Short passes cause the defense to pinch in in which then they can throw deep on you. If a defense is smart they will also start pressuring a QB more when he throws the short passes. So then what you do is call a screen pass. Which essentially lets the rush through and should cause players to leave the receiver alone and go for the QB. If you burn a team on a screen pass once or twice they start getting antsy about going full out in the pass rush. Then giving the QB more time in the pocket. Our playing calling is not utilizing either of these things!

Durant is playing good when they aren't calling plays to his strength's

fyi..3 and 5 step drops are generally only for timing routes...3 step for outs, slants, curls, hitches...5 step for posts, flats, fly, posts. Routes such as crosses, screens, deep posts are not generally timed routes. I do agree with the premise of what you are saying though.

One thing I must say though, in the last 2 games they were passing deep too often with the lead...but here is the kicker...they actually generally had the play a number of times. Dropped passes killed the play on multiple occasions. I saw a few problems late with the play calling...

  • relying on deep passes too often, as you stated
  • no running game (Sheets had 10 rushes...he should have had 7-10 in the 4th alone.
  • no option run all game
  • did not utilize the screen
  • emptying the backfield (brutal)

DD was a bit scared, I think, of taking off because of the interception. Hamilton played that play perfectly.

That's the guy.

I agree short passes, don't force it long. Spread the passing around.

Jindred, In a perfect world our Oline protects the QB as you stated I do understand that. That's not what I was getting at. What I'm saying is that there are times when the front of the pocket opened up and DD did not take advantage of the opening. The point is there was an opportunity that presented itself not called for in the blocking scheme (D blew coverage for what ever reason, our Oline blocking created an opening, that not the point though) DD sat in the pocket it collapsed while he continues to look down field. Chamblin discussed taking those opens when they are there. Lulay is the best at doing just that I'd say. DD is not Calvillo, he doesn't do alot of quick hitter.

Also the same has occurred when there wasn't a bootleg called for but again their is an opportunity to take off to his left (tough throw side arm) or to the right (better if not a cross body throw) where he could scramble, extend the play and look for a reciever down field to come open. He can fake the throw, get the D to stick to back and rush for 10 yds. Lulay really runs it rarely have I seen him fake the throw but that will come. DD can fake the run and bring the D in and throw to an open reciever.

DD in the past was good shaking off the tackles and scrambling to extend the play. I don't see that as much. Sure our Oline is much improved and DD can stick with the OC called play. Excellent. I don't want him though to stop using his ability to extend the plays when he gets the chance.

Yea.. I could have went into far more detail about all types of drop backs but my paragraph was going to be long winded as it was so I decided to just stick with enough to hopefully get my point across!

I agree we aren't running nearly enough! especially in the 4th qt.. however when we do run we can't keep doing the shotgun hand offs right up the middle. If you think about the Calgary game we did those too much and that kept us in second and long a lot in which Durant has never been especially good in second and long.
I would love to see the riders utilize the I formation more.. and do more outside hand-offs to Sheets. He is faster than most players on the defense and the ones who are as fast as him he is generally stronger than. So to get him in the open field and have him with some one on ones with defensive players would lead to more big plays from him. I am not saying every time, but more often than right now.

All in all we are over thinking this two much.. we had chances to win in both games and didn't capitalize! An uncharacteristic drop from Dressler in one game, a Missed field goal by Milo in another game.. Change those and we are likely 5-0.. We are a young team with a new coaching staff.. I think we are all over reacting a wee bit..

Sorry for the double post

@ Starbuck

I agree that Durant is to blame somewhat.. I just believe a lot of people are putting WAY to much blame on him. IMO a good 90% of the blame lies with the coaches. I believe they are calling the wrong offense for Durant. Which includes his running! They are not calling plays that are designed for him to have running lanes easily accessible. They are calling plays which have him stuck in the pocket far to often and they are calling routes which take to long to develop. Which lead to Durant (who isn't a great decision maker) sitting in their waiting for the play to develop.
He isn't good at deciding when to take off and he tries to make to much happen. This again lies with the coaches. You have to understand the strengths and weaknesses of your players. I don't believe our play callers understand Durant's. This IMO is the reason Kent Austin was such a good coach. He knew what Kerry Joseph was and wasn't capable of and called plays accordingly. He didn't give Joseph a whole bunch of decisions he basically told him make your first read and if he isn't open run! Durant should honestly have something similar to this. Because he sits in the pocket to long trying to make something happen unable to decide if he should wait or run.
And then thats where what I was talking about in my earlier post comes into. They are calling plays which have the wrong blocking schemes/ drops to give him the ability to get out of the pocket. He ends up right in the middle and their players are given time to take away running lanes!

Remember a team has to learn how to deal with losing before they can master winning. Things will improve; give the team time to gel.

He moved a lot this week. He's also the 2nd leading QB rusher behind Burris so far, at least what they said during the broadcast. As far as a passer, he's thrown 2 picks in 5 games. The knock on him is turnovers. The Riders offense has 4 turnovers in 5 games, 1 being on downs at the end of this week, so I think he's doing just fine there. He sees the field well and throws good balls. He hasn't been locking in like has been a bad habit from time to time in the past. Refusal to make it happen? Are we watching the same game? All he does is make it happen. He's a total warrior.

They're scoring 30 points a game and have 3 turnovers in 5 games. The offense is just fine and Durant is great, thank you very much.