The future of the actual Grey Cup

One thing hit me earlier today while I was playing solitaire waiting for some reports, the Grey Cup as it currently is configured is getting pretty full. It doesn't help that the middle half isn't very wide and only gets wide at the very bottom, holding less teams.

What do you guys think should be done with it? Keep extending the base and keep it's current shape or redo everything from the cup itself down to be wider, similar to the Stanley Cup so you won't need as tall of a trophy to hold as many names.

Yeah it's not an immediate concern at this very moment but, over the next year, it will be.

I heard they will be replacing the base after the 100th GC as the base will be full then. They can't add rings to it like the SC, as it's not made that way. Hopefully the new base will be as nice looking as the current one. BTW, it will be the 4th base that the GC wil have had. I'm wondering about the actual trophy, not the base. The actual trophy is over 100 (made in 1909), so I'm wondering if they will do what they did with the SC and do and exact replica of the cup to put on the new base (as the original might be getting a bit too frigile).

A replica Cup was made in 2008 although not certain what capacity it will be used..

The Grey Cup has been broken several times. The trophy was broken in 1978 when Tom Wilkinson and Danny Kepley dropped it, and in 1987 when a celebrating Edmonton Eskimos player sat on it. It was again broken in 1993 when it was head-butted by Edmonton's Blake Dermott. During the victory celebration immediately following the 94th Grey Cup game in 2006, the winning BC Lions accidentally broke the cup from its base, which contains the engraved names of the players on each year's winning team. It was repaired the following Monday.[3] Other notable events include a 1947 fire which almost destroyed the trophy and a 1969 theft in which the trophy was held for ransom. A replica cup was made in 2008.

They should actually simply retire the base, and create a new one. Put the old on in the hall of fam... Cohon has stated it wont be major change either way

Apparently a new version of the cup is going to make its debut either next season or the one after that. The design is supposed to be very similar to the current version, but will be less fragile than the current one.

The Grey Cup should be returned to its rightful owner, the Canadian Rugby Union. They may then choose to sell it to the CFL, or they may choose not to sell it. If they don't sell it, the CFL should go to a trophy shop and get a new one. :cowboy:

"In 1909, Earl Grey, the Governor-General of Canada, donated a trophy for the Rugby Football Championship of Canada. The trophy, which subsequently became known as the Grey Cup, was originally open to competition only for teams that were registered with the Canada Rugby Union."

Don't just grab stuff from Wikipedia to make it look like you know what you're talkng about. You obviously don't (just stating a fact, don't take it personally).
All the teams that are in the CFL were all members of the CRU (there was also the Ontario Rugby Union with various teams, but was defunct by the mid-fifties), but left to form the CFL in 1958. The CRU was left to manage amature football and is now known as Football Canada.
It's not the organisation that is important, but the actual teams that have been around since the mid-nineteenth century (in the east) or turn of the twentieth century (most western team, not including BC, who was very late to the party, not being formed until 1953). So the only non-CFL teams on the GC are some university teams (who now have the Vanier Cup) and , as I stated earlier, some from the ORU (which doesn't exist anymore). So it's the teams that continue to play for the cup that are important, not the organisation that they are under.

Here one of the keepers of the Cup, Dennis Dowell, explains what's in store for the current trophy:

I wouldn't take it personal if it was a fact but it isn't and you know diddly squat (just stating a fact, don't take it personally). Wikipedia never entered into it, I have played rugby for over 40 years and am a member of the Canadian Rugby Union and I am well aware of the history, purpose and engraving on the trophy. At least research what you pretend to know. The ORU is alive and well, I'm sure you could look that up if you desired but I'll even give you their web

Your ignorance of CFL history (just stating a fact, don't take it personally), is laughable. Many Grey Cup winning teams were most definately not University teams prior to the CFL. Teams like: Hamilton Tigers, Montreal St. H-D Navy, Hamilton Flying Wildcats, Toronto RCAF Hurricanes, Sarnia Imperials, Montreal Winged Wheelers, Toronto Balmy Beach, Ottawa Senators, Hamilton Alerts. In fact in the 100 year history of the Grey Cup, only 2 University teams ever won it, University of Toronto and Queens University.

Now I may not know what I am talking about but I at least know a great deal more than you (just stating a fact, don't take it personally).

Yeh, why don't you ask the NHL to give the Stanley Cup back to Hockey Canada to award to the top amateur team too, both are surely bound to happen.

The Canadian Rugby Union (of Grey Cup and Rugby Football history in Canada) is now Football Canada and its members and member organizations play amateur football not rugby. The organizations you refer to are not related to the historical Grey Cup/CFL predecessors that played Canadian Rugby Football but are the current incarnations of what was called British Rugby, although both sprang from the same origins if you go back even farther. The ORU, Ontario Rugby Union is actually called Rugby Ontario now and while Rugby Canada was previously called the Canadian Rugby Union (CRU), it was only established in 1974 and is completely unrelated to the CRU of Grey Cup history. An earlier incarnation of the British Rugby CRU was called Rugby Union of Canada, and again no connection to the Grey Cup.

Sorry VoiceofReason but you have COMPLETELY CONFUSED the history of British Rugby and Canadian Rugby Football.

Wrong again, the Canadian Rugby Union goes by the working title Rugby Canada and now as was the case when Lord Grey awarded his trophy for supremacy in amature rugby, they play Rugby Union. not British Rugby or Canadian Rugby. the sport is Rugby Union. Rugby Ontario is the working title of the Ontario Rugby Union. There is no such thing as either British Rugby or Canadian Rugby.

The current incarnation of Rugby Canada dates to 1965. It administers to the sport of Rugby Union Football as we know it today.

The original Canadian Rugby Union dates to 1884 but this organization presided over the sport as it ultimately evolved into our 3 down, gridironed Canadian Football. This original CRU kept the 'rugby' name until 1967 when it changed over to Football Canada which today presides over all amateur gridiron football in Canada.

Many of the current clubs of the CFL played in either the Interprovincial Rugby Football Union (IRFU) or the Western Interprovincial Football Union (WIFU). These two competitions were under the umbrella of the original CRU until 1958 when they withdrew and became the CFL.

This contradicts Rugby Canada's and Rugby Ontario's own websites.

According to Rugby Canada's website, their earliest forebear is Rugby Union of Canada, which was formed in 1929.

According to Rugby Ontario's website, they began in 1949.

Lord Grey donated the cup to the CRU in 1909. The game that the CRU was presiding over was almost the same game as modern Canadian football, the only major difference being the legalization of forward passing. Most other major changes, such as snapping the ball rather than scrummaging, a reduction from 15 two 12 players, 3 downs for 10 yards, etc. already had taken place. The Grey Cup was never awarded to a team playing rugby union or any minor variation of it. The organization kept the name CRU until the mid-60s, when it changed its name to Canada Amateur Football Association, and later to Football Canada. The two different organizations that have been known as Canadian Rugby Union have overlapping time lines, so they can't be the same organization.

The Ontario Rugby Football Union, whose teams competed for the Grey Cup, began in the 1800s and survived until the mid-70s. But just like the original CRU, their rules changed to an early version of modern Canadian football before Lord Grey donated the cup (before the CRU did, in fact), and as just like the two different CRU's, the time lines of the ORFU and ORU overlap, so they can't be the same organization.

Aside from nominal similarities, there is no connection between the CRU of today and the CRU of 1909, and likewise for ORFU and ORU.

Wow what a history lesson. Rugby is just plain fun to play but usually awful to watch in my view.

When else can you legitimately clobber a guy as you will have to do when the ball comes your way, so long as you attempt to wrap him up and don't go high in a proper form tackle for gridiron to this day, without being arrested?

I've never played Canadian football but would think it to be more fun than American football (boring as hell to play if you are a receiver at the amateur level and usually boring at the amateur level, but fun to watch at the pro level) because there are more changes in possession per game due to fewer downs.

FYB or anyone else, can you tell us what it was like to play Canadian football, sometimes called rugby as well, in the days when there were 15 players (as in rugby union since 1871 as I understand) and you could not pass the ball forward? I heard the ball was a real pig's bladder too (i.e. the term pigskin used at times to this day). No pads too? But did they also have beer on the sidelines like they did in rugby until the 1970s?

I enjoyed watching the Rugby World Cup games when they were on TV recently, and had a good time watching my Alma mater win a playoff game not too long ago, although I don’t understand some of the rules and strategy. Scrums and some of the stuff that happens around breakdowns can be boring (I think this is why Canadian football switched to the snap-back system in the late 1800s). Waiting for teams to line up after each down in gridiron isn’t always that fun to watch either, though.

FYB or anyone else, can you tell us what it was like to play Canadian football, sometimes called rugby as well, when there were 15 players and you could not pass the ball forward? I heard the ball was a real pig's bladder too (i.e. the term pigskin used at times to this day). But did they have beer on the sidelines like they did in rugby until the 1970s?
The reduction to 12 players occurred close to 1900. I think forward passing was legalized around the 1930s, much later than in American football, though Canadians were reluctant to adopt it at first (which is kind of ironic, considering Canadian football's current reputation for being a pass-happy league). There probably aren't many alive today who would remember Canadian football without legal forward passing, and close to 0 who would be old enough to have seen it with 14 or 15 players.

I’ve often wondered what a no-pass Canadian football game would look like. Would there be more punting? More gambles on 3rd and more-than-1? Would Canadian football have eventually switched to 4 downs? Something else?

And now to go way, way, waaaayyyy back....

As I understand it, the original rugby ball was actually a wineskin, and the original game of rugby was devised by 30 drunken Englishmen fighting over the contents of said wineskin. :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :rockin:

The popular legend of the creation of Rugby Union Football is that William Webb Ellis showing disregard for the rules of soccer picked up the ball and ran with it during a game at Rugby School, hence the name.

The Grey Cup was awarded for Supremacy in amature Rugby. Rugby Union was played with 15 people and up until quite recent history was an amature game. The professional version of rugby was Rugby League, a game played with 12 players per side.

Regardless of what the names of the various unions, there is no doubt that Earl Greys cup was awarded for amature Rugby Union Football. You can read it on the chalice if you like. The game played 100 years ago was rugby union and not any adulterated form of the game. Period. :cowboy:

So much for attempts to lighten the mood. :?

Ah don't sweat it, some just like their high horses quite a bit around here.

Cool video about the future of the Cup. I'm glad it's not a rush decision and many parties will get a say in what happens to it. I'm guessing similar talks are going on with the Stanley Cup.