The Face Mask, The Challenge, The Change Of Momentum...

Hamilton Tiger-Cats
21

A number of points...

BarneyFife...
"The refs haven't determined the outcome of a single TiCat game this year."

I disagree. Cats have had a number of inconsistent calls go against them and many of their early losses were by 3 or 4 points (1 "big" play or bad call being the difference). The most obvious IMO was the game in Calgary.

1st quarter Cats get called for roughing (Gordon hits Burris as QB is sliding). Last minute of game, Cats ahead, 2 Stamps do same to a sliding Maas (1 Stamp leads with helmet)... no call. If called, 15 yards and 1st down, Cats keep ball and kill time winning game.

A number of times Cats have been nailed for roughing the passer yet other teams seem to get away with questionable (even helmet-to-helmet) hits. And this is not just a "homer/Cats" whine. In this weeks game of the battling backups, (BC vs Winnipeg), a Bomber laid a helmet-to-helmet hit on the BC QB, stunning and cutting him yet no penalty. Where's the consistency?

Cats game in Winnipeg, Maas gets called for grounding when replay showed Ranek 3 - 4 yards away in path of ball. Last night, Allen has grounding flag waved off with no Argo receiver in sight (Black on CHML claimed Avery (#20) was 7 yards away). 4 yards away = flag... 7 yards away = no flag... ???

Black also admitted Bruce first grabbed TiCats facemask during straight arm (missed) but Cat grab was caught and called.

Black questioned the Cats interference at goal line giving Argos ball at the 1.

As mentioned in another post, Black claimed he hasn't seen the missed Flick interference (Argo DB bit on pump fake, was beat and grabbed a streaking Flick in front of 2 sidelines officials... no call).

One of my biggest gripes? I wish officials would just be more consistent, especially with receivers going off side. Cats had a number of plays nulified due to off sides yet I recall seeing Bruce a full stride past the line of scrimmage and no call. (Argos going west, south hash marks, around mid-field)(I know, Argos were also nailed a few times for off sides but why are some called and others not (ALL teams)?). Last game in Winnipeg, near-side Bomber receiver well off side yet no call from closest official (5 yards away), instead, far-side official (50 yards away) throws flag. WTH!!??

Allen sack marked at 6... IIRC, replay showed him "scrambling" around the 3-4 yard mark and driven back yet ball placed at 6. (minor quibble yet still questionable).

And I still believe Allen's arm was NOT going forward when he was hit and FUMBLED the ball. He pumped and had his arm ready to throw again but was hit from the backside and any POSSIBLE forward action was due to being hit, not his intention to throw.

Ref Bud Steen/Stein (sp?) officiated both last Bombers and Argo games... he must be following the Jake Ireland school of officiating re Cats games. (for years, I've automatically put the Cats 7 points down when Jake the Snake is officiating our game).

General off-setting penalties "complaint"...

CHML caller questioned a Cats "kick" with off-setting penalties (he had the scenario/facts wrong but the question remains).

Cats punt, Argos called for too many men, Cats called for (5 yards) no-yards penalty on punt cover. In such a situation, why does the no-yards come into play at all since the too-many-men would negate the punt (and subsequent no yards penalty) anyway?

Black challenged back by asking what the caller thought should happen if roughing was called (as the 2nd penalty). Shouldn't that stand? IMO, that was a bit of a red herring as roughing should be called no matter what occurs during play.

A parallel scenario (has happened in the past) to the above mentioned punt/off-setting penalties play... offense goes off-side or is called for holding, QB passes down field but interference called against the defense.

Penalties would be off-setting but I ask why? Pass play (interference or not) would be negated by offensive penalty. Why consider/"process" the 2nd penalty when the 1st has basically killed any subsequent successful play? (ie, completed pass/TD, etc)

*** Cats were deserving of this loss but that doesn't take away from all the questionable and inconsistent officiating throughout the season (team to team and game to game).

??? and what's with the posting "time stamp"... I post at 1:45 am and the time shows 6:45 pm. Are the servers in Australia or something??? :?

...

22
And I still believe Allen's arm was NOT going forward when he was hit and FUMBLED the ball. He pumped and had his arm ready to throw again but was hit from the backside and any POSSIBLE forward action was due to being hit, not his intention to throw.
Again, all of the talk over this call can be handled with one ruling. Upon looking at the replay one will notice that the ball went backwards after he was spun around upon getting hit, replay or not, forward motion or not, the BALL went backwards, making it a latteral.

Im sure George Black would dispute that too. His officials have never made an error.

23

I mentioned this in another thread but I’ll do it again here.
As long as the QB’s arm is ruled to be going forward with the ball, it’s ruled a forward pass. Even if the ball goes backwards due to the QB being hit at the time of release.
(I couldn’t find a specific mention of this in the rulebook, but that is the rule.)

edit: I just watched the replay of this for the first time in slo-mo (isn’t it great that TSN missed the live action because they were showing pinball talking to levingston on the sidelines?), and even at 1/16th speed it’s really hard to tell if Allen still had the ball when his arm started forward, but I have to lean toward yes, it was going forward. The force of Cotton’s hit caused the ball to release backwards, but like I said, this doesn’t matter as long as the arm is going forward with the ball.

Plus, even if this was a reviewable call, I don’t think they ref could find “indisputable” evidence to overturn it, no matter what the original call was.

24

Re crash-Flick was grabbed and you could see it clear as day, otherwise hes gone... No Call.
and No tv replay of the infraction, L peterson called it a strate(sp) arm.

25

Go to CFL Broadband archives and download the game.

http://www4.insinc.com/cfl/archives.php

At 01:01:20 you will see a replay that clearly shows Argo Bruce’s hand on Cox’s facemask. There is no video evidence that Bruce was ever facemasked and I challenge you to find some.

26

It was a 100% completely blown call.

The next play Allen, under pressure, does a left-handed toss to absolutely no one. He is flagged with grounding the ball but the flag is overruled as the ball makes the line of scrimmage. Silly rule, as there were no Argos anywhere near the toss.

The next play Allen makes a pass up the middle to Bruce.

It is still 1-0, early in the 2nd Quarter, but from this point onward the momentum shifts.

Download the game and see it for yourself.

27

Check the reply! Allen was in the motion of throwing and the ball and it landed behind him. Thats a fumble or a lateral....Ref's and most of the crown didn't seem to pickup on that one

28

When Allen was sacked, I do believe he was in the throwing motion. However the ball landed behind him towards the South stands. That makes it a Lateral , and a fumble. Ref's and most fans and commentators seemed to miss this one. I watched the relay on TSN and they didn't show a good angle or mention the fact it was a Lateral.....

29

These are all great posts, informative and well presented. However, the CFL is notorious for inconsistent officiating so this is nothing new.

As much as we can speculate as to what could have happened had a couple call gone our way, the TiCats offence didn't deserve to win that game and most likely wouldn't have even with those calls.

What should have happened was a complete blow out of the blue team even with bad officiating. Instead we got shut-out, again. Sorry, but spending time on the refs in light of the greater issues seems futile to me.

30

i didnt say the non calls are the reason we lost i`m saying they SHOULD of been called . Especially when Flick would of run under the ball and in for an easy TD .

To say it wasnt a bad call is a joke cause it should of been called and MIGHT of been a turning point in the game . We have a hard enought time scoring points without them taking away easy scores from us .

You noticed they didnt seem to have any trouble calling pass interferance on us at our goal line did they ???

As far as the Allen sack and fumble i watched it on tv as i taped the game and it was surely a fumble . Even Petterson said it was a tough call which means he knows it was a fumble but doesnt have the balls to call out a ref especially when that team happens to be HAMILTON !!!

31

Yup, the refs are out to destroy the Tiger-Cats, game in and game out. It's a conspiracy that has been around for years and has only been discovered by fans, nobody else. With only 8 teams left in the league, they have to pick on someone, so why not Hamilton?

32

Are we are mixing up two differnt plays?

You are referring to a call in the first quarter that was challenged by Lancaster but was apparently a call that cannot be challenged.

The play I refer to is in the second quarter, right after the face mask, where Allen tosses the ball with his left hand but does not get called for grounding.