The D ick Pounds the CFL

Rpaege I very much doubt with the feedback you provide that there EVER could be any grounds for which you would support drug testing even if the money were at hand as in the NFL.

Your argument consistently is along the lines of the following points, and no I am not quoting you of course just my understanding of all your arguments against it. Please feel free to correct me where I err given my understanding of what you seem to really be saying with your statements.

And really, under what circumstances WOULD you actually support testing and on what grounds? I bet you would not support it at all or cannot even be specific if you would support drug testing.

  1. "well if they can't afford it and get it absolutely right, right now well let's do NOTHING!" :roll:

  2. "older examples don't count they are not soon enough to show evidence of rampant use either even though they have been numerous! We don't have guys like Lyle Alzado any more of course, and eight years is so long ago" :roll:

  3. "And just because the stakes are so high to play in the CFL, even with many players not making the cut each year, well that does not necessarily mean that we have enough evidence of rampant drug use. We need more hard evidence before we do ANYTHING! It's not really a problem yet, so we ought do NOTHING and we can't afford it anyway!" :roll:

And most egregious of all a direct quote from you below:

I applaud the CFL's stated support of the program while doing absolutely nothing to implement it.
4) Wow (paraphrasing my own thoughts of what you are really saying again now) "nothing makes me feel better than seeing and hearing such good intentions even without anything to back them up!" :roll:

By that last sort of mentality as you expressed, as I live on the East Coast again and having lived out west in Las Vegas to know enough of the common West Coast mentality, I have to say "how crunchy granola California of you!" though such thinking is not confined to the West Coast. Yeah good intentions and just going with the vibe and the flow but not doing anything constructive have really always done a lot for me in life. :roll:

See how far that mentality would get you anywhere on the East Coast with especially most of these constipated batty types. :lol:

Wow if you visited Philadelphia would I like to sell many a local bridge to you given I'd know exactly how to pitch you when you believe stuff like that! It would all be with such good intentions of course and I'd take the remainder of the balance on COD woohoo!

Did you realise that many steroids like many drugs are also illegal such that why wouldn't the CFL also be concerned with its looming potential legal exposure and associated costs as has been the NFL? Even more evidence there against that "we can't afford it" argument because the reality is that the CFL cannot not afford it much longer.

When you have a guy like Pound commenting, it won't be long before the Feds there go after the CFL just as they would have more against the NFL had the NFL not cleaned its own house to some degree though no perfect. You think Pound is alone? Do you want the CFL to wait for the Feds likely worse than this Pound guy, or do you want them to clean their own house first and protect also their brand to a higher degree?

Right on HfX and ditto my previous comments below in support of RANDOM testing due to the excellent feedback on the cost-prohibitive nature as stated by Xvys on comprehensive testing:

[url=http://forums.cfl.ca/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=55317&p=892339#p892321]viewtopic.php?f=1&t=55317&p=892339#p892321[/url]

Oh you have me all wrong. Which isn't surprising since you don't know me from Adam.

If it can be shown that a small random drug testing program can be implemented for $50k (where does that number come from?), which I seriously doubt, and a plan is in place to also inexpensively pay for any medical rehabilitation services for any players caught in the net, then I'm all for it.

As for the NFL, and I have no idea why this keeps coming up since it has almost NOTHING to do with the CFL, it can easily afford such testing, so I say go for it. It should have a program. The CFL is not the NFL however.

If people are so concerned about drug use in the CFL then call in the Mounties and have an investigation and make some arrests. Call a public inquiry on the public's dime. Determine if it is in fact an endemic problem. Since there is no evidence to suggest it is, it would be foolhardy to throw money at a problem nobody knows for sure exists.

Is there drug use in football? OF COURSE there is. There is drug use throughout society. From your local church to the talk show host on the radio. Is it a serious enough problem to spend money on? What is the tolerance? Is it zero? Five per team, a dozen? There needs to be more facts and guidelines before a relatively poor league gets browbeaten into starting a drug testing program with numbers pulled from someone's butt.

And Paolo, please leave the snide personal comments out of it (it will also help shorten your rather lengthy posts). I have tried to do the same. Disagree if you must, but you don't know me. You haven't got clue what kind of person I am, how I vote, what I do for a living, or what my history is. So please don't presume that you do.

I have given you reasoned arguments. You are free to debate them, but just because you've been to Vegas or whereever means absolutely nothing about who I am.

Finally more of what you state makes more sense and some sense here Rpaege especially given some of your previous statements. Thanks for clearing up. :thup:

The NFL does have relevance when other folks bring up its failures and cite that as one reason not to do testing in the CFL as some folks did below. All the failures overshadow in the media all the NFL's quiet successes in that regard too of course.

Also not just from the NFL, looking really bad now for its supposed policy and testing with the likes of Lawrence Taylor (decades ago in and out of drug use more than once), Santonio Holmes, and Brian Cushing overshadowing numerous matters dealt with quietly and successfully, the CFL has and can learn an invaluable amount from all sports leagues with drug testing for sake of lowering its implementation costs and administering such a program.

To ignore the successful and failed experiences of other leagues would be quite the foolish course of action for the CFL.

That's how not just the NFL is relevant to the matter to answer that point you made notwithstanding the regular stream of players in the CFL who made their way there via the NFL as well.

Fair enough for the most part. :thup:

No I don’t know who YOU are, but you are not the first person from especially your neck of the woods in California from whom I’ve heard many of your views and slant in some of the statements you have made repeatedly not just below but in so many other posts.

I would rather not ignore my own experience in that regard with those who have expressed similar thoughts as you who often are from your area, but so there is no need to make more light of all that you are correct all the same. :thup:

Keep in mind that the NFL tests for recreational drug use. Dick Pound and others are not advocating for that. We are talking about performance enhancement drugs here. The 50 000.00 figure I give you is based on 48 samples at $500.00 a piece ( top notch lab) its probably closer to $350.00 per sample. I think even the players would want to make every effort to make sure they are competing on even footing for their jobs.

i just wanna add something, people come up with these BS excuses, that since players make 60k per year, then it
mean they couldn't afford roids, well its the opposite, the less money you make, gives you more incentive to cheat and make money and chase the money, think about it, the less money you make, the less you have to lose, its a low risk high reward proposition, also if a kid who plays college football can afford, im pretty sure a pro player can afford it, plus these guys have connections to people who can hook it up for free, look at balco, they basically gave that garbage away like its free water.

Whether it's a BS rationalization for or against, the biggest cost in ANY program is in salaries and overhead. You simply can't only count the cost of the tests. As has already been pointed out, there are also concerns beyond simple testing.

Absolutely correct great view! Desperate people do desperate things everywhere not just in Las Vegas as I saw all too often, with just one of many examples slot machines played by folks you do not know have a lot of money at any given gas station or supermarket, as well. The lower the downside and the higher the stakes, the more people will risk whatever they do have for sake of "winning the lottery" and not the other way around.

Most who have made it big know what it took to get there or have been down and out before and made a comeback and don't take foolish risks unlike the celebrity bust stories that get the headlines.

Why do you think some call lottery proceeds a de facto poverty tax as one example. No doubt in my mind past or present that plenty of players at all levels of football, be it soccer, rugby, gridiron, Aussie rules, are taking the 'roid and PED risks irrespective of any illegal drug use for recreation.

And spare me the "well we need to see more evidence" argument. An ounce of any of the junk is more damaging than anyone cares to count ultimately, as who do you think all too often ends up paying for the "victims'" rehab?

An ounce of prevention is worth well more than a pound of cure here too, and the only folks it seems don't want to hear that are those who think the rest of us ought pay for the "victims'" rehab and cry them a river when we all of course have our own issues with which to deal responsibly. :roll:

It's easy to have great intentions with the money of others isn't it? That mentality reminds me also of folks who think they should not have to wear seat belts or helmets too -- more power to them if they want to PAY for any damages but usually they happen to never show up to pay for the extra damage in the event of an accident because that becomes "society's" problem all of a sudden (and adds to your insurance premiums no matter how you drive). Whatever! :roll:

Financial concerns beyond the testing mostly, as in WHO pays for a player's choice to use steroids, banned PEDs whether legal or illegal, or illegal drugs.

Many want the rest of society to pay for these "victims." Horsepuckey! :thdn:

One thing's for sure Paolo, it's not going to cost you a penny. It's really easy to spend other peoples' money.

Of course Pound has to "pound away" at all leagues doing this testing, I get that. Personally speaking, it's all a joke since it is well known that masking agents are used routinely by athletes and other methods to avoid detection. Pound is just doing his job, but I couldn't care less what he says or what two bit reporter says about "credibility" with this since the reporter is just looking for a lead on an article to get people to read.

It's all one big friggin joke IMHO. Believe me, where the money is huge like the NFL, those guys are on more "juices" than any CFL player could ever imagine, or what Dick Pound thinks a CFL player might be on.

Poundy does have to pound away, let's make him feel important though, ok Dick, you're right dude, blah, blah, blah... :wink:

Couldn't care less really. It's a compliment to the CFL though to think some guys are juicing to make the money they make, in that way Dick and the reporter are making the CFL look excellent although I'm sure a few guys out there are saying "the CFL or CIS testing for roids" is that a joke or something? We are talking non-Canadian football fans BTW. :wink:

For a different take on 'doping' in sports:

http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/Shows/The_Passionate_Eye/ID=1401690657

Not $29.95, but only 12 easy credit card payments of $29.95, plus shipping and handling. :lol:

The team GMs should announce the picks, makes it way more exciting

No doubt I would think all fanso have some vested interest in preservation of the integrity of the game before it would but take one analogous to Lyle Alzado to tarnish the brand for good ...and it IS in the interest to make progress and for the league AND players to pay now, which in turn they pass on to the fans in various forms or have to make up via sponsors, or we all pay far more later. There's no free deal here anyway you look at it, as there is a mess to clean up.

And btw see how quickly the sponsors go when a major drug scandal breaks out too if you have even thought that far amidst other negative financial implications beyond the medical and legal ones. For example, I'm surprised more has not broken and how so few even bother to notice the identity of that Argos team doctor as described in that article I linked below as just one example for starters.

Any way you slice it, it will be the fans' money sooner or the fans and the league's entire viability later even apart from other looming greater short-term financial considerations to avert what happened in the 1990s.

Browbeating and downplaying the looming seriousness of this matter and demanding far more evidence forever is not the way to go, but instead rather taking some action against it to make progress for the good of the viability of the CFL.

I also wanna add that drug testing is a neccessity and not a luxury, you need clean players to ensure a level playing field and to reduce the number of guys that go crazy off the field once their career ends, look at how roids has ruined many ex-wrestlers, those guys are dropping like crazy and are a hot mess. Also if cfl players wanna roid up, they better not clog up our healthcare system once their career ends and they better not end crying in some brian williams 1-on-1 interview and sob to the camera about how roids ruined their career. Im tired of juice monkeys like that guy that used to play in ottawa who also went to wrestling, i wanna see guys that do things the old fashioned way, i wanna hardworkers like jim brown, russ jackson, doug flutie, mean joe greene, etc.

"Eddie I'm here for my little shot of B12"

Jo Bob
North Dallas Bulls

Could not resist :slight_smile:

I don’t buy the theory that this league cannot afford it… if each team puts in 62, 500 each, maybe less if the league itself puts money into it, it can be done. It would give the CFL more credibility than any other major sport on this continenent. If the salary cap goes up again, how can the league and its member team say they can’t afford it? The cap did go up by 200K for each team from 4.05 to 4.25 million. If the cap goes up again… its going to be hard for the CFL to justify not putting $$$ aside for drug testing.

They are arguing with the union for a 1000.00 raise to the min salary ! so yeah...

At least start somewhere random testing even... They are pushing it back to next year, than let's assume they get it done next year the union won't want it to come in effect for a year or two so guys have a chance to clean up their act. It becomes a joke...