There is a cost to drug testing but considering half the players are guests in this country and the importance of transparency in this area expected today. The league and the union need to accept that this is unavoidable.[url=http://www.torontosun.com/sports/othersports/2010/05/16/13968526.html]http://www.torontosun.com/sports/others ... 68526.html[/url]
Maybe someone should ask Mr. Pound how much in bribe money he took for voting for Salt Lake to get the 2002 games...
ok, somebody break it down for me, how come cis schools can afford drug testing, and the ones they use is pretty stringent and catches most people, even high school squads in canada use them and they dont have the budgets of big time u.s. schools, yet the cfl can't even afford one, and its 2010, not 1965. wake up cohon. Also can cohon please stop announcing draft picks, he looks like a silly informercial guy trying to sell me a blender for 29.95.
Pound should butt out. He can go and take care of his Olympic athletes and let the pros deal with it their way.
"‘Oh, it’s going to cost us a little money to implement’ — nonsense.?"
A LITTLE MONEY? He needs to wake up to reality. Quality and transparency don't come cheap. How DARE he call it nonsense. What a giant jackass.
Ok lets see. Universities already have the administrative staff in place to do drug testing. High schools already have the staff in place. Both are PUBLICLY FUNDED.
The CFL would have to hire staff, manage overhead. A staff of ten (1 person in each city, plus one or two administrators) at $50k a year is $500k. What else you gonna do? Have grandma volunteer her time so the Ti-Cats can pee in a cup? Then little Joey from down the street can ride it over on his bike to the testing centre in Toronto. I'm sure he'll do it for $5 and an autographed ball. :roll:
Pound should check his facts before he exposes himself as an even bigger fool than everybody thinks he is.
CFL does not have an "image as a refuge for drug cheats". The only person who keeps saying that is Pound. But the fact is there has been only one player who has every played in the CFL while serving an NFL suspension, Ricky Williams...which was for suspected marijuana use, and he claimed was for religious purposes. I don't believe there was one other NFL player who came to the CFL to serve out his suspension. The CFL now bans any suspended player from playing in the CFL.
Considering the low salaries of CFL players I doubt there is rampant drug use like with the millionaire players of the major American leagues. If there is any CFL drug use, it is most likely pot, as claimed by Tad Kournegay of the Riders in a recent N.Y Post article.
If Pound was truly concerned about drug abusers in sports, he should go after the NFL with their 375 lb linemen and a joke of a testing policy, which only spot checks a couple of players off each team...then hides the results.
folks im here to add the voice of an average joe and keep it real.
-D!ck Pound aint nothing but a self-promoter, he loves to hear himself speak, his mouth is like a horse’s butt, everytime it open bulls!it comes out.
-cfl doesn’t really need testing, but if they do, why doesnt the cfl get corporate sponsors to chip in, its good pr for a corporation if they show they wanna keep the league clean and promote clean-living towards young kids.
-the cfl could just have cfl teams do drug tests at the same time as CIS football teams, keeps it smooth and all the utilities, equipment and staff are in place.
-B.C. lions could test with UBC
-eskimos with alberta golden bears
-stamps with the calgary dinos
-bombers with the manitoba team
-riders with the regina team
-argos with u of t
-ti-cats with mcmaster
-alouettes with mcgill.
-Also when you combine things, you could have the pros share nutrition and workout tips with the young kids.
I have nothing to say about this Pound dude or his comments as it seems that he has his own agenda from his past, but otherwise Xvys I disagree most of what you say about the CFL's lack of drug testing policy though agree with what you state about the NFL in that regard.
When I was living in Atlanta in the late 1990s, an (American) co-worker was once a CFL player in the 1990s and of course I cannot mention his name or where he played here.
He would talk about all the 'roided up (and slow from his perspective having played NCAA ball) linemen up there as one example, and given there is no drug testing policy there it would not be foolish to believe that despite the lower pay than the NFL, many players would 'roid up just to break into the CFL to have an edge given the high competition all the same.
The many off-the-field benefits to pro athletes everywhere also are more than just the salary for playing the game they love, and most of us working any given job would have to pay for all that extra stuff.
Certainly such an option to play is better to the average guy out of school with also athletic talent than going to most jobs like most of the rest of us, so I think it is more preposterous to believe there is not a whole lot of 'roiding going on with no testing up there as well just like there is down here with the testing plus the NFL's "elephant in the room," HGH, for which I posted a separate thread with a fine article. :?
The stakes are just so high in both cases for the players involved such that some will risk even their long-term health in order to have this edge.
All this is still happening with a massive body of evidence against 'roid use a full 20 years after Lyle Alzado mind you of whom I've commented in a separate post (wiki him if you are under 35), and a drug testing policy sure won't be perfect but it is a step in the right direction. :roll:
Don't confuse progress with perfection like too many beyond only this matter too as if something is not absolutely foolproof, well then we ought not do it. :thdn:
I agree. The CFL doesn't need drug testing. There are already laws in place to deal with illegal drugs. If someone is concerned about, have the cops do the testing.
There is no way that a public institution is going to allow a professional team to leach off their program for free. It would still cost them thousands a year in fees per team. And sponsors won't have anything to do with a drug testing program. The chance that it would blow up in their face – Argos star slot back caught with THC in his pee thanks to the Scotiabank Say NO To Drugs program – is simply too great.
I don't think every player should be tested but certainly some random testing like the NFL does would be smart business for the CFL. Gets people like Pound off your back and lets the players know they are putting their carreer at stake if they cheat.
Even if it is a pro league, it is cheating as you are competing with other athletes for jobs...
Another option would be to mandate that players new to the league provide test results from accredited labs at their expense and once in the league if they are randomly selected to test, than those would be at the league or teams expense.
There are jobs in the private sector like that now. Some of the OIl rig companies for example... and yes I know it does not prevent accidents and spills...
Its a PITA for everyone but it makes sense on many level.
This is not the first time or the last that not only I but the actual evidence disagrees with you Rpaege on the matter of drug testing in the CFL or in the NFL, including especially for 'roids as a greater concern than illegal drug use for which players would risk greater criminal penalties except for it seems the high tolerance for marijuana up in parts of Canada like not far from where you live in CA in the US.
As stated in the article even the CFLPA wants it mind you as does Cohon, so it's only a matter of how to pay for it now not if as you are assuming when you say the CFL does not need it in contrast to the CFLPA and to Cohon.
Pound sure has his own past and agenda, but he's correct that not being able to figure out how right now is a paltry and lame excuse though he sounds off-base like most politicians if he does not have a better suggestion on how the CFL could pay for it.
Some good sense here but I don't agree that new players ought pay for tests UNLESS they are coming from the NFL, in which case they almost always have the financial resources to pay for those tests.
Random tests are an excellent step in the right direction and are in fact by nature feasible, and random selection protocols are already well-established in other sports and in the Olympics for sake of the selection of players for said tests.
Most major private employers in the US except it seems more the case out west in states like CA,NV, and CO (I have a brother who works in HR in that drug-lenient state), with government employers usually testing, test the rest of us before employment and have us for random testing by our prior consent at any time. When these employers can afford such random and employment testing no doubt the CFL could as well.
I dunno. Seems like the CFL is a pretty easy target. Beat up on the little guy while the big boys get away with murder. What a farce. And a little anecdotal evidence doesn't a problem make. You'd think that if there really was a problem it would have been a huge public issue, with players getting sick and ratting each other out, and getting arrested and the like. None of that has really happened has it?
We're not talking about the NFL here. If you have evidence of drug use in the CFL lets see it. OF COURSE the CFLPA and Commissioner say they want it, because it's the politically correct thing to say. They can't possibly say no to such a hot button issue. They would be vilified and they know it.
They will have to have one eventually of course. The issue isn't going to go away, but that doesn't make it worthwhile and not a colossal waste of money.
To those who claim "no need for drug testing in the CFL" in disagreement even with the CFLPA and Cohon, here from the HGH post in "Other Threads" is the article to which the Argos team doctor is tied and is a person of interest for sake of the NFL and other American athletes as well:
Beyond current flawed drug testing as evidenced by the whole Cushing affair recently: [url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-inconvenienttruths121609]http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=c ... uths121609[/url]
Ties to the Argonauts, Tiger Woods, Dana Torres, and others just waiting for some media muckraker again here ...
The cost excuse is just that an excuse, some basic tests are cheap and will detect the typical Anabolic steroids like Androstendione accessible to these guys in the local gyms. This is not the Dutch speed skating team or Chinese swim team travelling with scientists and transfusing oxygen rich blood on game day, there is no need for Biometric passports.
My kid brother fightst in a King of the Cage promo in Alberta and is tested along with every fighter so the CFL with its 200 million in revenues needs to come up with a more credible excuse.
I'm not saying there isn't drug abuse in the CFL, but the fact is the average player salary is about $60,000. The CFL player's union voted down the proposed drug testing plan in the last negotiations, because they said if the league has an extra million dollars to spend on drug testing, the players would rather use that money to help feed their kids in the form of increased salaries.
I frankly doubt the CFL could implement a testing plan for $500k. What would the CFL do when they drug catch a cheat, cut him? Kick him off the team and take away his livelihood? In other leagues, suspended players are sent for professional counseling, therapists and clinics, which costs megabucks per patient. They don't just release the offending player, they try to help him and cure him. They simply can't do this in the CFL. It would cost more money per player to do this than they get paid in salaries. The league would have no choice but to kick druggie players off the team and send him down the road. This is the main problem. What do they do with the cheats? If the CFL had billion dollar revenues like the NBA, NHL, MLB or NFL, then they could do that. But any drug policy the CFL could bring in would be a farce and the league would be forced to try and cover up the abusers to avoid bankrupting the teams.
Let's not forget that the Bombers lost over $1 million last season. The Argos probably lost nearly $2 million. The Ticats had even bigger losses according to their owner. Do we expect these owners to dip into their pockets even further to try to rehabilitate drugged players, who can be easily replaced with another $42,000 player from the U.S?
If the CFL was forced to bring in a comprehensive drug policy like the major American leagues, the league could not continue to exist in its present form. So no more Canadian Football League. Dick Pound might be happy, at least there is less incentive for players to cheat if the league is gone, but are we really willing to pay that price?
As strong as an excellent argument against the matter as this is Xvys, it is also an argument for with the use of RANDOM not overly expensive comprehensive testing.
And golly you don't have to send a player down the road for good as is not the case in the NFL and other leagues anyway as you point out.
On the first offence you suspend him and do NOT pay for any rehab how's that? That's why there is health insurance whether private or social up right?
Do you think when a few players are caught some others will see what is at stake from the example and catch on if they have not already? Or do you really want drugged-up players all over the league hanging around to mess up the scene otherwise?
When it comes down to it, a druggie is not the "victim" he is made out to be because the drug use at the core such use was a matter of personal choice long before it becomes in many cases addiction.
No one had a cigarette, pipe, bong, or syringe shoved into them, and with all choices come the consequences for better or for worse just like for the rest of us who are not pro athletes!
Steroid are usually done in "cycles" and the most logical time for those would be during strenght and conditionning programs during the off season. So it would not be obvious to teammates.
Here is a quote from the late great Ron Lancaster
I've never known Mike -- or anybody -- to come out and admit they use them," the coach said. "But I'm not dumb enough nor naive enough to think that somebody back there ( in the locker room ) isn't using them."
Having said that Mike Mihelic was charged in 2002 was arrested and charged with posession and traffic of steroids.
Hamilton Tiger-Cats offensive lineman Mike Mihelic is among a group of six people charged after police shut down what they say was a sophisticated steroid and marijuana production business.
Toronto and Halton police co-operated in a Wednesday raid at a farm compound south of Milton where they seized 120,000 steroid pills and hundreds of bottles filled with an injectable liquid form of the drug commonly used by bodybuilders.
As for getting sick, there really is no longer any spectacular damage done by steroids, the days of the Lyle Alzados injecting themselves with veterinarian concentrates are long gone. damage to the liver , reproductive and endo systems would not be noticeable for a long time.
A University of Waterloo football player recently found with a stash of performance-enhancing drugs has been charged with possession and the intent to traffic.
Nathan Zettler, a 23-year-old defensive back from Waterloo, was charged after police discovered a large amount of anabolic steroids, including nandrolone, stanozolol and testosterone, two weeks ago.
It is out there no question in my mind
Thank you Xvys for the cogent argument. I couldn't agree more. The CFL simply cannot afford to fix something that isn't really broken to begin with. Let those who want to pay an extra 20% on the ticket prices be the first to step up in support an expensive and unnecessary drug testing program. Let them also be the first to moan when attendance drops and teams start bleeding even more cash than they already do.
This whole idea is ill-advised and poorly thought out. I applaud the CFL's stated support of the program while doing absolutely nothing to implement it.
Maybe Dick Pound will pay for it out his salary. We should ask him.
And there you go! An eight year old example of steroid use. Anything more current? And a University player is charged with a crime by the authorities. As it should be. That's what laws are for.
I agree with you the league can not afford to test every player and should not. But if each team tested 4 players 3 times a year (12 players per team). The cost to the league would be arouond $50 000 a year that’s the bonus Mike kelly paid Goodspeed before trading him…
Not everyone is caught for speeding but they still enforce it…