Ted Rogers has died!

Hamilton Tiger-Cats
#21

Because more Americans wiil be drawn to watching an LA team on TV than they would a Toronto team.

Do you think that US sports fans would tune in to more Blue Jays games or Dodgers games?

Do you think the US sports fans would tune in to to more Raptors games or Lakers games?

Raptors and Blue Jays are barely on the US TV radar. No comparison. The lakers and Dodgers are huge! Always have been. Have the Jays or raptors ever been huge in the US? Back to back World Series couldn't do it.

... local franchises tend to add a couple of zeroes to the value of TV deals.
The league doesn't care about local deals. It's all about the BIG deal and there's nothing bigger than the NFL and [b]nationa;[/b] TV coverage. LA would stand a much better chance of increasing national TV numbers than any Toronto team ever could. Why would any NFL owner care about Toronto's local deal. they just care about what a franchise could do for the league as a whole, and by extension, their own team
I hope the naysayers are correct - IMO 5-7 NFL-related stories a day littering the newspapers I read is 5-7 too many, but I can't see a league that is legendary in their ability to maximize revenue continuing to prop up franchises in tier three cities like Buffalo and Minnesota forever when one of the ten largest money trees in North America is just screaming to be picked clean.
But that's the common misconception yet again. Toronto is NOT a money tree for the NFL. Toronto won't do much for the rest of the league. Certainly not as much as LA.
The thing with McCown's arguments is that they're frequently intelligent, usually logical but often wrong all the same.
So far he's been right on this count for a few decades now. Talk of a Toronto NFL team is hardly new.
#22

The NFL is not a charity and they're not looking who "needs" football. The NFL looks at who will increase their revenue. LA is much more likely to do that than Toronto ever could.

Furthermore, why do you think the NFL expanded into Carolina and Jacksonville? Because they went after the huge NCAA football market and they did it successfully.

So, if you get some really rich owners as in Rogers Corp. and MLSE together in Toronto willing, and I emphasize willing, to pony up $100 million more when Ralph passes on and the Bills are for sale, I see them ending up in Toronto with a slightly revamped Rogers Centre seating 58,000.
Some rich guys in Toronto guarantees nothing. Do you honestly think it's as easy as some rich guy wanting a team that he automatically gets one?
... the NFL looks at money and I think the Toronto group will outbid everyone, I really do.
i think you're totally wrong here. Yes, the NFL looks at money. However absolutely none of the money any money that Rogers would pay goes to the league. It would all go the Bills owner.
Also remember that with number crunching and the TV deal the NFL gets better than any other league, you can look at your costs and know better when you will start making money. The NFL is not a gate driven league in the US like the NHL where if people don't show up, franchises are going to be losing money left, right and centre.
Exactly! So how would a Toronto team increase TV ratings in the US? it wouldn't. An LA team would.
#23

Captain, points well taken. Now, do you know if there is anyone in LA or any group actively lobbying for a NFL franchise there? If there isn't, then that is a problem I'd say.

#24

Just reading this in The Toronto Star and if there is any truth to this, I guess I will be proved wrong, thankfully!!

Long-term hopes of pursuing an NFL team, on the other hand, likely departed with Rogers. At $78 million, his company vastly overpaid for the eight Buffalo Bills games in five years and, because of ridiculously overpriced tickets, it has been a poor investment to this point. The Rogers board, seeing losses of close to $5 million on the first Bills game, a pre-season encounter for which 15,000 tickets were handed out free, has lost much of its NFL enthusiasm. Now factor in the rapid decline of the Canadian dollar and the expected cost of an NFL team – likely more than $1 billion in Canadian dollars – and there is almost zero chance the NFL will be pursued beyond the current deal with the Bills.

[url=http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/547417]www.thestar.com/Sports/article/547417[/url]
#25

Captain, you don't think that one rich guy can make all the difference in influencing where an NFL team ends up? Remember NFL vs Al Davis? And in the aftermath of NFL vs Davis, Baltimore to Indianapolis, Cleveland to Baltimore, etc. A very rich man that owns an NFL team can make all the difference - the precedent has been set.

LA has already had and lost NFL teams twice in recent memory, so it isn't a slam dunk location. The naysayers usually compare Toronto to the heavy hitters - New York, Dallas, LA - and find Toronto wanting, but the threat isn't that the NFL will award an expansion franchise to Toronto over LA. It's the rather less predictable business of whether some very rich guy in any of the dozen have-not NFL cities can be persuaded that Toronto can offer a more lucrative deal. And the very rich guys in Toronto that will continue to dangle those carrorts, and keep the keys in the ignitions of the moving trucks to make that happen some day.

In terms of TV, I'm not talking about a local TV deal - I'm talking about a National TV deal that becomes much more valuable with a franchise in that market. Sadly, an NFL team in Toronto makes the NFL the undisputed premier football product in Canada, media and corporate-wise. Of course it's arguable that a Toronto team won't increase NFL viewership in Red Deer, but Canadian TV rights are sold as if that potential is there. It's also true that some Americans might not tune in to watch a Toronto-base team in the playoffs, but that's equally true of several weak NFL teams that are the most likely to move to Toronto. And the US TV deal already covers the entire US, including LA.

If the NFL isn't interested in non-US markets, why play that game in London? Why the NFL Europe experiment? Seems like an awful long way to fly a bunch of football players if you have no interest in developing revenue streams outside of the home market.

I think that most people understand that the limited success of the NFL experiement in TO isn't an indication the NFL won't sell there. It's just an indication that, contrary to popular belief, there's IS a limit to the Toronto corporate buyer's stupidity - paying triple the going rate to watch someone else's mediocre team is too much for even that crowd. A mediocre team of their own, and the opportunity to share a building with the world's biggest football player celebrities as they come through town every two weeks - that's a whole different ball game.

I hope McCown is right, and that you are right, and that all the naysayers are right. I just wouldn't bet against the prospect of very rich men chasing ever more money, and while Toronto ain't LA, it also ain't Buffalo or Minnesota or St. Louis or New Orleans or Cleveland or Cincinnati or...

#26

I guess in due time we will find out how much clout the Phil Lind’s have with Rogers Corp. BoD without Ted around. Phil’s dream I’m sure is still alive and well in his head but he doesn’t have the money himself to make it happen and I don’t know how influential he is at Rogers without Ted there.

#27

With the Bills deal, I think they really shot themselves in the foot.

They should have just signed a deal for a 1 regular season game. Just like the league does with out of country games. Toronto won't be able to get an NFL team now until the deal runs out.

I hope the Bills stay in Buffalo and from what I hear, there are at least 2 groups of people who want to buy the Bills and keep them in Buffalo.

The other rumour we keep hearing about is the New Orleans Saints becoming available. Their stadium needs a lot of work and the owner wants a new stadium. If they become available to purchase or for relocation, Toronto is locked in with Buffalo.

Judging by the response of the first exhibition game, Torontonians won't pay anything for an NFL game. Judging by the press for the upcoming game this weekend, it's also going to be a failure.

The problem with the Bills in Toronto is that the city is a big NFL supporter but loyalties are spread out. Even though Buffalo is 1.5 hrs away, there aren't many Bills fans. The Bills are seen as losers who can't win.

The teams I always see supported are the Cowboys, the Steelers, and more recently with their successes the Giants and the Patriots. You also see Green Bay fans, some 49er fans who hopped on their bandwagon in the 80s and Charger fans who like LT.

Torontonians are sick of losers (Leafs) and want to be associated with a winner. They will only support winners.

Ted was able to fund this because he controlled his own money. Now that he has passed, God rest his soul, the people who take over want it to be financially successful. The will dump anything that doesn't make them money. I am thinking the Blue Jays might be the first to go.

As for LA getting a team, the NFL keeps coming out in support of an NFL team in LA. They want to be in the biggest market in the USA. They think it's a shame that they biggest market doesn't have an NFL team.

I say this, I compare this to Ottawa in the CFL, the NFL has had 2 chances with the NFL, Raiders and Rams and to be even more foreceful of my point, the Chargers were originally from LA but that was when they were in the AFL. Why beat a dead horse? It obviously doens't work there. Bad owenership or fans combined to run the NFL out of town. In this day and age, you can't be sentimental about teams or cities. I think it's a shame about the Super Sonics moving from Seattle. But I can't get sentimental and have to accept change. The owner wanted a new building, the city would flip the bill for it and so he left.

This is becoming more and more the case in sports. Show me the money. Owners aren't in business to please fans. They are in business to make money. The best business men are rich because they makie sound investments and know when to pull the plug on a swamp land in florida.

Fans don't mean anything anymore. You can complain or protest or boycott but as long as owners make money, they don't care.

Do you think Ralph Wilson really cares that his fans who attend games are losing 1 regular season game for the next 5 years? No, because he's guaranteed to make money off of it and more than if the game was played in Buffalo. Sacrificing 1 game a year to keep the Bills in Buffalo is alright by me. It's about survival.

#28

Earl, buddy, .... isn't it ironic that you posted this? Almost 1/3rd of the posts on this particular thread are yours. :wink:

Now that said, I offer the Roger's family my sincere condolences. Ted was certainly a remarkable man, true visionary and Canadian icon. He will certainly be missed.

And, while I don't share Roger's NFL vision, nobody can doubt his passion on that particular cause.

#29

Just, I did give it a few hours but have to admit, I am fully entrenched with the whole thing surrounding Ted Rogers' death and it's impact on the Canadian sports scene and my favourite league, our CFL. I'm a bit of a junkie have to admit with all of this political sports stuff. :wink:

But still, total respect for Ted, RIP Ted, you were a great businessman and visionary businessman at that.

#30

That's a good point, but I just dont'ee how Toronto will make any owner more money with that outdated stadium.

In terms of TV, I'm not talking about a local TV deal - I'm talking about a National TV deal that becomes much more valuable with a franchise in that market.
I dont' follow you on this one. How do you suppose a Toronto team will increase the value of a national TV deal?
Sadly, an NFL team in Toronto makes the NFL the undisputed premier football product in Canada, media and corporate-wise.
Maybe corporate-wise, but I'm not sure about media -wise. Maybe in the GTA but I'm not convince d it would be in the rest of the country, and especially in regions where teh CFL is very popular.
If the NFL isn't interested in non-US markets, why play that game in London? Why the NFL Europe experiment? Seems like an awful long way to fly a bunch of football players if you have no interest in developing revenue streams outside of the home market.
No one said they weren't interested in non-US markets. They've been marketing and selling in Canada for along, long time already. I can't see it increasing all that much just by putting a team here.
I think that [b]most people[/b] understand that the limited success of the NFL experiement in TO isn't an indication the NFL won't sell there.
Really? Most people? I disagree. I think it is an indication that it's not an easy sell here.
I hope McCown is right, and that you are right, and that all the naysayers are right. I just wouldn't bet against the prospect of very rich men chasing ever more money, and while Toronto ain't LA, it also ain't Buffalo or Minnesota or St. Louis or New Orleans or Cleveland or Cincinnati or...
Well, I will agree that the bottom line is that money talks, and if some one with lots of money to offer wants a team in Toronto, then yes, it could happen. That's the exact same dynamic I'm hoping is happening with Ballsillie's pursuit of NHL in Hamilton.
#31

What most don't know, there a quite a few rich people in Buffalo, all who want to buy and keep the team local.
There is a group fronted by former Bills QB Jim Kelly and no pun intended, the very rich Rich family. Also, the current owner of the Sabres who I believe is from Rochester. Any of these alone or together have more cake then Mr. Rogers has.

#32

From: Kelly will fight for Bills in today's Globe and Mail

[i]So long as Wilson is alive, there is no question about the Bills' future in Buffalo. But Wilson, 90, has said his family isn't interested in taking over the franchise upon his death, which would potentially put the team on the open market.

And if that happens, Kelly plans to be ready. He says he's got a group of local investors interested in purchasing the NFL franchise and keeping it in Western New York, although he's not willing to provide specifics.

"No I can't really, to be honest with you," he said. "The only thing I can say is so long as it's Mr. Wilson's team you've got to respect that and hopefully be able to do what you can to make sure the team stays in Buffalo."

The Bills won't come cheaply. The franchise is estimated to be worth more than $850-million, a nice investment indeed for Wilson, who originally purchased the club for $25,000 in 1959.

[/i]

#33

Yes a very good piece CK.
With this and the combination of passing ot Mr. Rogers, dear I say we can officially put a nail into the NFL coffin nonsense.

#34

Argotom, that's just not true.

Roger's net worth was close to an incredible $5.7 Billion Dollars US Dollars - http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/10/billionaires08_The-Worlds-Billionaires_CountryOfCitizen_2.html

The owner of the Sabres, B. Thomas Golisano, is only worth $1.8 Billion US Dollars - http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/10/07billionaires_B-Thomas-Golisano_BBWS.html

The Rich Family is only worth a paultry $300 million - http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1154/is_n2_v77/ai_7002408/pg_2

#35

I don't think Rogers' son who is taking over the empire has the same level interest that his dad, pushed on by Phil Lind had. Also, from what I've read in the TO papers, the NFL hasn't been overly impressed with the reception that the Bills games have receieved in TO. They are well aware of the fact that the exhibition game was far from a sell out and many tix were given away to paper the stands. This weekend's game is also far from sold out (although the outrageous pricing structure has alot to do with that). And finally, the Canadian dollar's fall relative to the American dollar means any NFL team will cost as much as 30% more for a Canadian to buy. That amounts to additional millions of dollars for any Canadian bidder.

The NFL coming to Canada is looking more and more remote.

An Argo-Cat fan