If the new Designated QB ( wildcat formation ) rule gets approved, it would open the door for some creative rostering.
You would have to list him as RB, WR, or SB on the roster instead of QB.
Then bring in an import RB or SB on the roster at QB.
Becuase there would only be one QB ( the import ) on the field, and the QB doesn't have to line up in the backfield anymore, they could get around the rule.
It would be interesting if they brought in a short-yardage specialist RB at the QB position. Had Orban in to hand off or just let him take the snap on his own.
Unfortunately, they wouldn't be able to use him on any play with somebody else as QB, or on special teams ( except possibly punt blocking ).
It take years for most Canadian talent to develop, how long was it before Elgaard became a star? I wouldn't call Grant or Getzlaf "stars" either. The most talented rookie Canadian we had, IMO was Stu Foord. Why put Orban(if he does try again with the Riders), into a role like that? If we are going to move towards more homegrown talent at the QB spot, would it make more sense to try to develop him as a QB? Until another great Canadian QB comes along, to show that it can be done, that spot will be reserved for imports only.
Orban's season with the Rams was a let down, does anyone know if they are even going to invite him to camp this year? I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't considering what kind of year he had.
There have been a number of great CIS quarterbacks in the past who dominated the position and Canadian university football in general when they played, who many felt could have been stars in this league if they were given a fair shot, but never did.
The first one who jumps to my mind is Jamie Bone who played with the Western Mustangs in the late 70s. If my memory serves me correctly, he won the Hec Crighton award in 1978. I played against him when I played for the Laurier Golden Hawks frpm 1978 to 1981. He was sure something to behold. He actually took the CFL to court arguing that the import, non-import rule discriminated against developing Canadian quarterbacks. He did not win of course.
But probably the best Canadian quarterback in the history of the CIS is the legendary Chris Flynn of the Saint Mary's Huskies. He won the Hec Crighton award three years in a row: 1988, 1989, and 1990. He is the only player to win the Hec Creighton award three years in a row in the history of the CIS. If he did not get to play quarterback in this league, then nobody will. This guy was outstanding. Many felt he had a certain CFL career, but it never happened. He had size, mobility, a cannon for an arm and a mind like Einstein and worked like a mule. Ottawa drafted him in 1991 in the 5th round, 35th overall.
More recently, there has been Tommy Denison who played for Queen's, who won the Hec Crighton award two years in a row, 2002 and 2003.
The CIS is just not a good enough league to develop a professional level QB. Any Canadian who has the ability to play pro ball whether it be in the CFL or NFL will most likely come out USA college like Jesse Palmer.
As far as seeing Teal Orban being a "ratio buster," trust me, he isn't that good. He may be a good kid and a hometown favourite, but there have been far greater CIS quarterbacks than Teal Orban who tried to turn pro and it never happened.
Probably the most successful CIS quarterback to ever turn pro is Bob Cameron and he is legendary as a punter and not as a Quarterback.
Not a big Teale Orban fan myself but I am pretty tired of hearing all the talk about how there are so many better US QB's or more developed, etc. than what you get in the CIS. It seems to me that patience is HUGE for US QB's coming up here. I look at all the guys the Riders have brought in that were excellent in US College but simply sucked up here. If they are so abundant and so good, why can we never find one?
And coaches seem willing to put in four or five years developing a QB from the US but not for Canadians. The best reason I have heard for that is the junior football and the fact that so many QB's play junior for a while and then university and don't graduate until they are 24 or 25. THAT, in my mind is the biggest obstacle to a Canadian QB ever being signed. If they head to University right out of high school then they graduate at 22 and can be developed for a few years and look to start when they are 25 or 26.
I agree that coaching has been a major issue but I think university coaching is getting much better in Canada. It now becomes an issue of players being put in positions to succeed. That Chris Flynn was never given a good shot is incredibly disappointing because he was an excellent QB with a great arm. I think if he had been given a legit shot and done something, you would see much better athletes playing QB in university now and have a shot at some guys going pro. As it stands, if I was a Canadian looking for a CFL career, there is no way I would try QB.
As much as CIS coaching may have improved you are comparing apples to oranges when comparing CIS to Div 1 NCAAF
Its the equivalent of saying that the Americans produce just as good of hockey players as the Canadians do. Yes they have gotten better, but we are still in a league of our own when it comes to hockey talent.
Not a bad example. There are a handful of American college teams that have good hockey programmes, but playing Canadian junior hockey is still seen as the best way to get to the pros. Many Canadian junior hockey teams have foreign players from Europe and the USA now. And those American cities that have junior hockey play in Canadian leagues and their rosters are full of Canadians. Even American college hockey teams for the most part, have Canadians playing for them.
Perhaps the biggest factor is what kids play when they are small. Here in Canada, (myself excluded because my parents were from Europe and Africa so hockey meant nothing to them) most of us played hockey and then had a short period around June when we played baseball, but hockey is the sport of choice for Canadian kids. There is of course school basketball and volleyball etc. but nothing compared to hockey. Organized football is restricted to larger urban schools in Canada. Most of us never played football except touch football in the school playground at noon hour.
In the USA, kids play either football, basketball or baseball and having an earlier start at these sports definitely bolsters their development. I lived and worked for a while in small town North Dakota and even their school had organized football. I was impressed when I saw literally hundreds of people turn up to watch their school’s team play football and basketball. Only in hockey do kids attract large crowds for games except at the odd tournament like Luther’s basketball LIT.
The CIS is not a QB's league! I have attended CIS games in Saskatchewan and all over Quebec where I live now. Teams will run the football on 2nd and 14 without hesitation, regularily and it's not common for a RB to get over 200 yards. Point being, CIS is not as "skilled" of football as NCAA in the sense not alot of emphasis is placed in the passing game. It focuses on the run game exclusively. Just like high school football. No disrespect, I love attending CIS games. In Quebec they are huge (8000 people every game for the Vert et Or in Sherbrooke), not to mention Laval's popularity, but the CIS is very far behind. It's like comparing the the SJHL to the QMJH.
Yip. Comparing CIS QBs to top American prospects is pretty much night and day. A top CIS prospect will be a couple of years older--usually--and not as well trained as his younger American counterpart. A CFL team could take a guy under their wing and try to teach and develop him, but that might take 2-3 years just to get the guy close to the level a raw rookie from NCAA I will be at. And if the kid doesn't pan out, the lack of choices comes into play. There are likely 100 American QBs that graduate each year that are comparable to, or better than the 2 or 3 graduating CIS kids that even have a sniff. The CIS product has improved greatly in recent years. The coaching is getting better, and so are the players. But at that most elusive of all skill positions, QB, they have a ways to go yet. At this time, Teale is a free agent and the riders do not seem in any hurry to sign him and even bring him to camp. Which will be a shame. But not a surprise.
The difference was last year he could attend as a university-eligible player, thus not counting against the TC limit. This year, different story. Is he worth one of the 68 spots? Didn't think so.
Plus, if he attended camp, every ball that he throws instead of DD, Jyles and Bell, makes us worse.
Oh, and whoever said Chris Flynn had a "great" arm - are you kidding? I'm sure he was a nice kid and all, but nearly every pass I saw him throw had a big arc to it and a distinct wobble, and a couple of long outs he threw you could have timed with a calendar.
So what you’re saying is that in 5 years, he would have been a can’t miss prospect, if only he weren’t Canadian, and in 10, he would have reminded you of a young Warren Moon?
I remember watching Flynn roll to his left and hit a receiver on the goal line from midfield. In my mind, that equates to a strong arm. No, I did not watch him alot so it is very possible my perception is wrong.
Now, as far as comparing CIS QB's to American QB's out of Division 1 football, I would agree in most situations that the American QB's are a very long ways ahead of the curve in ability. BUT I also remember the RIders bringing in guys like Tony Rice and Homer Jordan from the US based on their pedigree. Both were running QB's that were lousy passers and never had a chance to succeed in the CFL. They didn't have a clue how to read defences and yet at the time the media and prognosticators were all over how fantastic these guys would be.
Also, keep in mind that for the most part CFL QB's tend to come from division II teams (guys such as Ricky Ray and Henry Burris) so comparing the coaching in CIS to Division I doesn't really apply in several cases.
I don’t think there are any Division II QBs in the CFL. At least not the two you mention. Henry Burris played for NC which is a NCAA Championship team, Ricky ray played for Sacramento which is a Division I team. Richie Williams is the guy from the smallest program that I am aware of and that is still Division I-AA. I’ll let you search and see if there are actually any Division II QBs, but I am skeptical.
I said it and no I am not kidding you. But I did not say I thought he should have been a CFL quarterback, just that some people who know the sport did say that. My firm belief is that there will never be a franchise quarterback who will come out the CIS ever, unless that person is a freak of nature.
Personally, I thought Jamie Bone was a better athlete. But I am biased.
But you are probably correct… the fact that Chris Flynn dominated the quarterback position in the CIS for three years in a row and holds nearly every CIS quarterback record, is probably an absolute fraud. After all, you saw him throw a COUPLE of long outs that did not measure up to your standards and those two passes that you “claim” you saw should certainly have more weight when it comes to evaluating his abilities than a record setting career at Saint Mary’s that no one has come close to duplicating since.
The step from that to the CFL - it's a chasm, really - is so large that being great in the CIS means very little when talking about their CFL potential. I don't diminish his CIS achievements, but at the QB position, don't mislead yourself into thinking that CIS ability translates into NCAA Div. I ability, let alone pro ball ability.
CFL teams have no inherent bias against Canadian quarterbacks. They're in the business of winning and will take talent wherever it comes from - be it Canada, the US or the moon. If there was really a CIS grad at that position who a team thought would make them better, what possible reason do they have to pass him up?
Wrong. Since QB's are neither imports or non-imports, teams will choose THE BEST QB's, regardless of nationality. If a Canadian QB is better, he'll play - not because he's Canadian, but because he's better.