Stupid is as stupid does

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=409477

I made this thread not to just single out the really stupid tweet of just that one player - but as a request for all Coaches to tell their players kids look up to them - kids emulate them. If I was a Head Coach I would completely ban all players from posting anything not sport related ... If this keeps up we are looking at a CFL Darwin stupid posts award :roll:

Personally I'm getting fed up seeing these so called paid professional athletes stick both feet in their mouths by making remarks because they are either totally ignorant or they think they're being funny.

Why would Lewis, or anyone make a joke in reference to such a tragedy? How utterly disrespectful. I don't care what Lewis's stats are or his athletic ability. These guys need their devices strategically placed where the sun don't shine. What is wrong with these guys? Lewis attended university, so he must have something between those ears. Mitchell graduated with a Communications degrees and yet you'd think they were raised without social values, discretion or any other of the basic social graces. I also get sick and tired of hearing guys defend these characters by saying," Uh...well it was just an error in judgement. He apologized," blah blah.

Lewis is 30 years old. He's intelligent and old enough to know better and even guys less intelligent know better and show more common sense. Maybe it is just arrogance. " I am Nik Lewis, I can say whatever I want...even in jest." He doesn't need his coach to hold his hand and say, "Now, now Nikki, no more tweeting until the playoffs are over."

I really would like the CFL to disclose what sort of so called fine these guys get for such remarks. That would tell us just how serious the CFL is taking this garbage.

Wanna hear a good one? So according to the CFL and the Calgary Stampeders, being a professional athlete now means giving up your right to free speech. A right guaranteed to every man, woman, and child in Canada under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. We protect the rights of criminals and hate groups, who can spout off about anything at anytime... but if you play football for a living you're not allowed to use social media to express your opinion.

What Nik said was a JOKE. A Joke about something that happened 17 years ago. How many of the little kids watching CFL today were around 17 years ago? Right, none. Nobody under 20 got the reference, so I fail to understand how he's hurting little kids who seek to emulate him. As if it's not bad enough that the media and fans of rival teams are attacking him for this, the CFL decides to hit him with a FINE???? This JOKE did not condone violence, nor did it harass anyone or discriminate against anyone, which are the CFL's standards for "unacceptable use of social media".

For anyone who's going to jump down my throat and say their kids watch this and can figure out what he meant and he's supposed to be a role model blah blah blah.. guess what? Your kids have already seen and heard MUCH worse stuff than this from their peers. They don't care what Nik said because the comment doesn't make sense to them, THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO OJ IS.

When I heard this on the news yesterday I was irate that they would attack him for making a harmless joke. When I heard today that he was fined (remember we're talking about a CFL player, not a millionaire) part of the money that he sweats and bleeds to earn, I was furious, to the point that I wanted to write a letter to the league. This is my open letter.

I created this account tonight (if the mods on this forum are anything like the CFL itself, I'll be banned tonight as well) just to protest this insane response from the CFL to a JOKE tweeted by one of its premier players.

Now before you respond, all huffing and puffing about how he needs to be held to a higher standard than the rest of us: How would any of you feel if you went into work tomorrow and were told you weren't going to be paid for the day because of an off colour joke you made at a party? 90% of you would refuse to work until the decision was reversed, or take the day off since you're not being paid anyway. None of you would just accept the decision, work as hard as you possibly can all day, and tell everyone you know that you made a bad decision and you're not going to go to parties anymore just in case you say something else that some people find offensive.

Nik Lewis, on the other hand, is going to swallow his pride (and common sense), go around telling everyone what he did was wrong (which it wasn't, and he knows it), and then go work as hard as humanly possible to help his team win. And oh yeah, APOLOGIZE FOR BEING FINED. That's the role model we want? Someone who lets his employer take advantage of him? Someone who says he's wrong when he knows he's right because his superiors say he has to? Someone who isn't allowed to speak out because some people don't like what he has to say? Now THAT'S a JOKE.

...I'm a mod and rather than ban you I'm cuing the forum rip squad in....3.....2....1....

...I'm also moving this thread into a previously created thread on the very same subject, because that is what we do here

...my $0.02...you're totally wrong on so many levels I don't even want to begin, Lewis's tweet was not haha whatsoever, was in very bad taste, and his aunty would probably cuff him upside the head if she were around...

His aunty can cuff him upside the head for anything from being late to dinner to sneezing without covering his mouth.. doesn't constitute a fine though... tell me how I'm wrong.

...puts the CFL in a bad light, plain and simple and couldn't care less if you disagree with that position...in fact, I think you are going to be hard up to garner any support for what you are saying, but stranger things have happened....

C4L~

Your take on what Lewis did is so typical of the culture of entitlement mentality we see today. So typical. A joke? A joke about a tragic event that took place several years ago that involved 2 innocent young people having their throats slashed where one was almost decapitated? And THAT story is something to make light about? Unbelievable! Absolutely unbelievable that you would try and defend such an error in judgment that has no defence.

The OP on the other thread was absolutely right about how young people look up to these pro athletes. The younger generation could have been born the year the murders took place. So what? They are not stupid. They know how to research and look info up better than the rest of us. If Nik Lewis is someone's hero and the hero worshipper knows nothing about the OJ Simpson case, he/she will simply google it and read all of the sordid details and hopefully ask, " Is there something off about this guy, Nik Lewis who I idealize? Why would he ever make a "joke" about something like that?"

Many people were disgusted with the way that trial played out and with what had happened. Nicole Simpson had her throat viciously slit almost to decapitation. Her special friend Ron Goldman was butchered as well because he was in the wrong place at that wrong time. Her children still grieve her death and the way she had died. Ron Goldman's father tragically lost his son and has never been the same man since.

And you C4L..... actually believe that it is appropriate to make jokes about something like this? That is very sad. Very very sad.

You are wrong because Lewis acted like a boor for making a such a socially insensitive remark and you both saw nothing inappropriate about it. It doesn't get much plainer than that! My concern is that Lewis was not fined enough. If he doesn't understand the difference between appropriate and inappropriate he should not twitter until he does.

You can call me sad, or entitled, or anything else you like. I never said people should make jokes about OJ and Nicole, what I'm saying is taking away his paycheck for a joke is criminal. You've never heard someone make an OJ joke before? It's happened thousands and thousands of times.. that kid who googles OJ can just as easily google those same thousand jokes. Nik Lewis didn't do anything wrong, he just made a joke about something wrong that someone else did.

"You can call me sad, or entitled, or anything else you like. I never said people should make jokes about OJ and Nicole, what I'm saying is taking away his paycheck for a joke is criminal."

Stop trying to defend and rationalize. You justified and dismissed what Lewis said as trivial. It was only a "joke" you said. Don't try to play both sides. You were saying that because it was only a joke it was appropriate and therefore there was no cause for Lewis to get fined. He got fined because IT WAS INAPPROPRIATE AND TASTELESS. He made a total fool of himself, showed zero social discretion and the CFL is not going to tolerate it.

You know C4L I'll explain how your reasoning works. It works like this:

A kid tries to start a fire in the boys washroom of a school with no regard for the potential catastrophic consequences. The mother tries t defrend her son by saying, " But it was just a small fire...."

Good Lord. Wake up C4L and learn what discretion and good taste means. Surely, you do not think it is appropriate to go around telling jokes about Kennedy's assassination back in '63 or his brother's assassination in '68, or Martin Luther King's assassination in '68? Somehow I think you actually do. That is what is sad.

  1. No it's not, look it up. You're thinking of the US. Free speech rights in Canada are significantly more limited.
  2. Even in the US, it only applies to the government. Free speech does not give you immunity against consequences from your employer for acting like a moron.
We protect the rights of criminals and hate groups, who can spout off about anything at anytime... but if you play football for a living you're not allowed to use social media to express your opinion.
No we don't, in fact there's an entire section of the criminal code about dealing with hate speech (and in many provinces the Human Rights Commission has overly broad powers in that area). Once again, you're thinking of the US.
What Nik said was a JOKE.
If anything, he should be fined for crimes against comedy. Because it's really not very funny.
A Joke about something that happened 17 years ago. How many of the little kids watching CFL today were around 17 years ago? Right, none. Nobody under 20 got the reference, so I fail to understand how he's hurting little kids who seek to emulate him. As if it's not bad enough that the media and fans of rival teams are attacking him for this, the CFL decides to hit him with a FINE???? This JOKE did not condone violence, nor did it harass anyone or discriminate against anyone, which are the CFL's standards for "unacceptable use of social media".
Slavery happened a long time ago, can we make jokes about that at the expense of say... oh, I dunno... Nik Lewis?
When I heard this on the news yesterday I was irate that they would attack him for making a harmless joke. When I heard today that he was fined (remember we're talking about a CFL player, not a millionaire) part of the money that he sweats and bleeds to earn, I was furious, to the point that I wanted to write a letter to the league. This is my open letter.
So it'd be okay if he was a millionaire and got fined instead? Isn't that a double standard?
Now before you respond, all huffing and puffing about how he needs to be held to a higher standard than the rest of us: How would any of you feel if you went into work tomorrow and were told you weren't going to be paid for the day because of an off colour joke you made at a party? 90% of you would refuse to work until the decision was reversed, or take the day off since you're not being paid anyway. None of you would just accept the decision, work as hard as you possibly can all day, and tell everyone you know that you made a bad decision and you're not going to go to parties anymore just in case you say something else that some people find offensive.
Your analogy is totally wrong since he did it in public and not at a party, but I'll bite...

In my job, if I made that kind of joke and it got major media exposure, I could get fired. Forget about fined, major organizations don't tolerate people who represent them making them look this stupid. That also happens to apply at a party if it's a work related thing (or even if lots of work people are there). This stuff is taken pretty seriously in the corporate world, both for brand image and harassment lawsuit reasons.

Nik Lewis, on the other hand, is going to swallow his pride (and common sense), go around telling everyone what he did was wrong (which it wasn't, and he knows it), and then go work as hard as humanly possible to help his team win. And oh yeah, APOLOGIZE FOR BEING FINED. That's the role model we want? Someone who lets his employer take advantage of him? Someone who says he's wrong when he knows he's right because his superiors say he has to? Someone who isn't allowed to speak out because some people don't like what he has to say? Now THAT'S a JOKE.
Nik Lewis is going to realize what everybody else who likes to tell edgy jokes does - every now and then you wind up on the wrong side of the line and this happens. When it goes wrong, you man up, admit it didn't work, and move on. What you don't do is whine about free speech rights that you don't actually have, since that just makes you look foolish.

There's this thing called 'professionalism'. Nik (and you) should look it up.

Difference is my friend is that as a professional athletic, like it or not, you are up on a pedestal!!
Like it or not you are responsible for your actions and must be accountable as a role model- like it or not.

'nuff said- let's move on. :cowboy:

Stop trying to defend, Beagle? That's what I came here to do!

People do inappropriate, tasteless things all the time.. remember when Joe Namath asked that reporter to kiss him while he was drunk on TV? Were you clamoring for a fine for him as well? Or do you have to hit a certain level of tastelessness before your rights should be trampled? Your analogy of a little boy almost burning down the school makes no sense. There are no "potential catastrophic consequences" involved in this case, we are talking about a JOKE about OJ Simpson. This is more like the little boy drawing a picture of lighting a fire and the teacher taking his crayons away because maybe when one of the other kids sees the drawing they'll go light the fire.

This isn't an argument about what is or isn't appropriate, this is an argument about the level of response. If Nik makes an illegal hit and hurts a player - he deserves a fine. When he makes a bad joke all he deserves is what you're giving to me right now - a tongue lashing.

BTW - I wouldn't joke about those assassinations myself, but I also wouldn't call for the punishment of someone who did. It's a free country man. Seriously.

It's the Streisand Effect. Simply by choosing to create publicity for the tweet by fining Lewis the CFL has created far more publicity for it than it otherwise would have gotten. Sometimes you just have to let stuff like this go. Have a talk with him sure, but don't let it get out of hand by giving people something to write about. It was a lousy joke poorly delivered. It wasn't hate speech.

As for the free speech argument, Lewis has the same rights as everybody else. He can say pretty much whatever he wants (with some limitations). He can also suffer the consequences for what he says, just like everybody else would. In this case he gets a (small I'm sure) fine and a talk with the man. It doesn't appear that he thinks it was worth it.

Tridus...

  1. No it's not, look it up. You're thinking of the US. Free speech rights in Canada are significantly more limited.

Am I? Let's see:

Under section 318 of the Criminal Code of Canada, it is illegal to promote genocide. Under section 319, it is illegal to publicly incite hatred against people based on their colour, race, religion, ethnic origin, and sexual orientation, except where the statements made are true or are made in good faith. The prohibition against inciting hatred based on sexual orientation was added to the section in 2004 with the passage of Bill C-250.

I don't see anything in there which says football players can't make jokes about murder.

You're half right about hate groups. While they're allowed to walk down 9th ave shouting racist slogans and carrying hatred spraypainted on placards, they can't post it on the internet or write it in a publication without the Human Rights commission coming after them (if there's a complaint). Of course, depending on the shade of grey that speech takes, the commission might not be successful.

Fined for crimes against comedy - that's funny.

Yes you can joke about slavery, it's your right.. go ahead, no one can stop you.

Holding millionaires to a double standard is wrong as well, I just assumed someone would try to argue that point. Good for all of you for not going there.

If you were to be fired for that, you could sue for wrongful dismissal. UNLESS you were representing the company at the time. Nik Lewis was not representing the Stamps or the CFL when he made that joke.

Nik will likely be bullied into pretending that what he did was wrong, which is the same as what happens when every edgy jokester goes "too far" in the eyes of the general populace. What he won't do is whine about free speech, even though he could, because he's worried folks like yourself will call him a fool. I'm not.

Professionalism? You don't even know what my profession is. Suffice to say I'm not a football player, or I would have apologized and been fined by now.

I tried to use the analogy of the boy in the school hoping you would get the point. The point is the mother was trivializing the situation. You are trivializing what Lewis did by trying to minimize it. When I said to stop trying to defend it was in reference to your take what Lewis did.

"This isn't an argument about what is or isn't appropriate, this is an argument about the level of response. "

It has everything to do with what is appropriate and inappropriate. That is what determined the level of response in the first place. You attempted to qualify it as being appropriate by saying it was simply a joke. It WAS a joke but a very tasteless and inapproprate one that crossed the boundaries of social acceptance. If this is not the kind of joke you yourself would ever tell then why condone others saying in the name of free speech? That is the part that makes no sense. Start asking yourself why it is inappropriate and connect the dots from there. It is called accountability.

You said the joke was about OJ Simpson but the joke was at the expense of deceased person who was brutally murdered. There are some things you just do not say in honor of the those involved.

C4L, though you would not joke about the assassinations I referenced because you realize it would be totally inappropriate to do so would you even say something to the person telling such jokes or would you remain silent because this is a "free" country where we can say whatever we want with impunity? If you would not speak up then that speaks volumes about what is wrong with this country and the country south of us.

I remember when emailing first became popular, people were warned about sending flaming emails, not to press "send" in an angry or demented state of mind. Twitter is even worse and is aptly named. Twitter makes twits of us all. However, It's usually just famous or prominent people that get burned by their idiotic tweets.

My worst tweet was to Charlie Sheen: "Get professional help, you bipolar freak!" If a politician or Sheen's boss had tweeted that, special interest groups would be raising a stink and ankle biters in the press would be all over them.

If I was a GM, I would include a no-Tweet clause in all my employees' contracts, including my own. Everybody says/writes stupid stuff. Most of the net is essentially anonymous; Twitter, not so much.

I got your point, Beagle, I just don't agree. Millions of people could make the same joke (and have), none of them will have part of their livelyhood taken away to pay for it... except Nik Lewis.

You're right, I am trivializing what he did, because what he did is trivial. You find it hard to believe that I would stand up for someone else's rights even when I don't necessarily agree with them? THAT is what's wrong with this country.

"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire

the only thing that can possibly mitigate this incident is the fact that there is a multitude of cultures and environments in NA and that in some places where people grow up, certain things are not considered so bad as elsewhere. It is possible that where Nik grew up and the social environment he spent most of his life in, just might not have had much of a problem with it.

and, as much as I hate to suggest it, the same might be said of Mitchells remark.

sure, by now you would think they would know better, but, as much as a stretch that it be, they could possilbly really not know better.

in short, perhaps it stems more from an ignorant heart, than an evil heart.

not defending, just speculating.

That is a strawman argument C4L. And no where did I say that. The fact is you are in complete agreement Lewis. This is not about Lewis's right to express himself. No one is denying him that right. It is about expressing oneself within the parameters of socially acceptable behaviour and conduct. It is about fessing up with a contrite heart when a person knows he's put his foot in his mouth and not fessing up because he is told to do so. You are not defending his right to free speech. You are defending his right to say what he wants whether it is offensive or not. Socially acceptability is not always measured by the letter of the law or by laws itself. It is measured by one's moral compass.

I still do not understand why you would think it is appropriate [for the sake of getting a laugh or two] to make light of the circumstances surrounding the death of a woman who was brutally murdered regardless of when it happened.