Starting to sound official... ARGOS OUT OF THE DOME!

What’s even more stunning in this day and age where everyone is ask to conserve energy and be smart about water consumption and waste. How much energy will be required for the massive amount of lighting and water that will be needed to feed this thing ? Toronto is pretty liberal with fresh water usage but still.

No matter where the Arblows play, they will still only draw 18-20,000 fans out of a 6 million metro population. Quite pathetic.

The Arblows should move to Moncton. An argo belongs on the ocean, not a great lake.


While we are at it, perhaps we should rename the Roughriders since they belong in the US, and the Tiger-Cats because they aren't native to Hamilton. Also, why stop with the CFL? I'm sure there isn't any King in LA, or Panthers in Florida. Also don't forget the Raptors are extinct, that's a silly name to have. Oh Cincinati Bengals, Minnesota Vikings. Nope that doesn't work either.

If you knew your history, you'd know that the Toronto Argonauts got their name from the Toronto Argonauts Rowing club who played back in the late 1800s and are one of the oldest football clubs on the planet. Grow up.

When did they say that? A link plse. You are making assumptions again just like I am with the NFL team.
If the grass goes in, it has to be removed in the fall, the surface will be covered for concerts, truck pulls etc.

I have to agree with someone that said building a new stadium or renovating the BMO is not going to change the Argo attendance. All it means is that the 18 to 20,000 will be sitting outside instead of inside the dome and then the complainers will say that the Argos would draw better if the games were held inside.

Actually, as a professor I couldn't let this go. :smiley:

There ARE a small number of panthers left in Florida. Once common, now maybe about 150-200. Quick Florida panther facts? [url][/url]

As for Vikings in Minnesota, there IS lots of speculation about historical roots for this. [url][/url]

Class dismissed. Football talk may now resume.

It was reported the Blue Jays were losing $50 million a year when Rogers bought them in 2000. Ted Rogers said he lost $300 million on the Blue Jays up to 2008 and their payroll has been massively increased, so they are likely still losing money. Add in the lawn costs and reduced stadium revenue and the Blue Jays will be further under water.

The point is this seems to be more pertinent to the story than the Argos being in the red, especially when they ignore the $12 million the Argos reportedly made last year on the Grey Cup (according to their president).

After CTV, TSN and CBC dumped the Blue Jays broadcasts and they now get nothing from Sportsnet, is that somehow good?

Incidentally, the Argos TV rights will be doubling next year, which will reportedly put them into the black (perhaps the G&M should write about that?)…while the Blue Jays, it’ll be 2 X nothing. :roll:

If the Bills go up for sale, Toronto would have to get in line with Los Angeles, San Antonio, Portland, Mexico City, London and any other place wanting an NFL team. My money would go on one of the dozens of billionaires in California or Texas that would just love to join the NFL old boys club.

Hey my Grandpa was professor at SAIT, those are some good posts there.

I was gonna say tho to mikem and the NFL in Toronto thing. I've heard on the radio on the TEAM in Vancouver from several people that there are at least 4 other markets the NFL is considering before Toronto, that's the last I heard.

They also had Toronto media on the other day pretty much stating that its not gonna happen and the TEAM media confronting on the only 20,000+ paying fans for the NFL. Meaning the NFL is not drawing any better than the Argos in terms of paid attendance. And the biggest game at Skydome the last few years was Grey Cup 100.

They will figure something out for the Argo's. And no it will not stay at 20,000 as several years just recently I have witnessed the resurgence in Toronto. Early 2000's were 10-20,000 but they moved up to always drawing around 20,000-30,000 a game. Some games have been over 30,000. Toronto has improved over the 2000's, this year has been disappointing but the schedule has been a joke. The Argos will need a consistent schedule to have Season Ticket holders grow, and the only way to do that is in a new stadium given Rogers problem with the CFL and the Argos (I still swear to this day they purposely turned the Rogers ADS too loud at BC Place during the 2007 West Final, everyone was complaining and it was only the Rogers ads).

I bet you Braley will do something, he will get something solved in Toronto that will grow the game for the better. I'm sure bobby ackles had a few ideas they still can use in Toronto they haven't done yet.

I joined in 2005, that's almost 9 years ago and I've heard about NFL Toronto that whole time. My dad said he heard it back in the 80's too and even Vancouver was rumoured after BC Place was first built because in the original configuration it would hold 80,000 seats for an NFL configuration as it was larger than the 76,000 seat Silverdome.

The Bills are not going to leave Western New York. :roll:

Hammer's right when it comes to the Jays, though. Rogers owns the building, the team, and the network that shows what, 160 games? The team itself doesn't have to make money to provide value to the company with that kind of vertical integration. Granted they'd do even better if the team was winning, but it's a good business model for running a sports team.

As for the Dome... well yes, grass would probably get rid of the Argos. It wouldn't get rid of an NFL team if Rogers really wanted one, they'd find a way to make it work. mikem put out some scenarios on how that could happen.

The big question for me is if the Argos are out of the dome, where are they going? If MLSE decides to take a pass, what does that mean for the future of the team?

Precisely, grass or no grass the dome is the worst place to watch either sport.
Hopefully we can and will move out of this dump.

I joined in 2005, that's almost 9 years ago and I've heard about NFL Toronto that whole time. My dad said he heard it back in the 80's too and even Vancouver was rumoured after BC Place was first built because in the original configuration it would hold 80,000 seats for an NFL configuration as it was larger than the 76,000 seat Silverdome.

The Montreal/Toronto/Vancouver NFL rumours have been around since at least the early 60s. Jean Drapeau and Gerry Snider lobbied for an NFL team in Montreal in the 70s, a group tried for an AFL team in the early 60s, and stories have floated around about Toronto forever.

Btw, BC Place could never have accomodated 80,000 for any football game, American or otherwise. In its initial configuration, six rows could be added to each end zone, bringing total seating to approximately 61,000. These six rows were removed to accomodate the CFL field. The reason BC Place was the largest domed stadium - in area, not seating capacity - at the time was precisely because it had to accomodate the larger Canadian field.

I posted this elsewhere (on another website) but it applies here. For anyone who thinks the NFL is coming to Toronto, let me count the ways...


In the early 70's, after the WFL tried to come to Canada, everyone said, "Yes they failed but the door is now open and the NFL will be here by the end of the decade." Joe Robbie (the owner of the Dolphins) commented about the NFL coming to Canada and Paul Godfrey had the required connections to get it done. Canada's time had come!!! NFL teams would be in Toronto and Montreal before the end of the 70's. People couldn't wait... except they did.


In the 80's, everyone said the NFL would be here by the end decade because the CFL was losing fans, the NFL was very popular and the Jays and Expos were proving we could support the 'Big Leagues'. It was "inevitable".

Then, the NFL started to play exhibition games across Canada in the late 80's - obviously, this was a sign!!! The CFL was struggling to survive. Everyone said the NFL would be here soon. The 80's came and went.


The Raptors came in the mid 90's. The Jays had just won the World Series (twice) and were drawing 4 million fans a year. Toronto had a new domed stadium. The CFL was on its deathbed and had to borrow money from the NFL to survive. Everyone said the NFL would be here by the end of the millennium to round out the sports landscape in Toronto because they could not resist such an amazing market. The 90's passed with no NFL team.


In the mid 2000's, Rogers made a deal with the Bills. 8 games that would sell out at outrageous prices. Ralph Wilson was dying and (FINALLY) a billionaire (from Toronto) who owned a stadium was involved. WITHOUT QUESTION, this was IT and the NFL would be here by 2010.

What happened? The games did not sell, people did not care, Buffalo claimed Toronto as its territory and NFL fans made excuses. 2010 came and went.


In 2013, the MLSE CEO opened his big mouth about the NFL and now is looking at buying the Argos... Yawn!

I agree. For those of us who do not want the NFL in Toronto, the Bills series is the best thing that ever happened. The Bills will stay and whoever buys the team (after Ralph Wilson dies) will say, "I will buy the team and keep it in Buffalo but the territory of Toronto belongs to me". The other NFL owners, not wanting a relocation fiasco will say, "YES!!!".

God, what a MORON. You can't even get your insults right. Moncton is on the Petitcodiac River, not the ocean.

That was great. Thanks for posting. Toronto's NFL possibility has come and gone. Now its just way to much money ($2.5 BILLION + for a team and stadium) to risk on a luke-warm, mediocre market.

That's what morons do. They read comic books in Geography class.

Thanks! Every generation thinks they are the first to want the NFL and think it is coming. Every generation is disappointed and realizes, over time, that if the NFL wanted to be in Toronto, they would be.

It is far more profitable (T.V. $$$$) for the NFL to put a(nother) team in: LA, Texas, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Mexico City, Europe than it is to put one in Toronto.

As I tell NFL fans, "If you want to hope for the NFL, feel free, just don't hold your breath".

Its more profitable, more popular, more politically correct, more support from the NFLPA (Americans want to work in their own country). More, more, more....