OK, I'm a little concerned here. After listening all week to the sports guys, and reading various posts here and on other sites I think Wally has a problem. - Buck/Jarious lose a game and they are the worst QB's ever, Casey loses one and he's the best.
It seems that there are a large number of people who are willing to forgive Casey Printers of any transgression. Attitude? No matter what he says people say he's changed. Poor on-field awareness? Who cares because he scrambles so well. Attendance tonight? People will attribute the better number to Casey and not to the importance of the game or that we're playing Calgary.
Sure there are some detractors but they are quickly shouted down by the Printerites. Therefore I'm interested to know what happens if we lose again tonight and go 0-2 with Casey at the helm. And what if he utterly screws up at a pivotal point in the game again? Are you guys still going to be 'big fans' of his? Aside from his ability to run, what makes him such a great QB?
Please do tell, because even when I put his 'attitude' aside I'm still haunted by the fact that he can't recognize defences. Being a risk/reward QB means you're throwing into double coverage.
At least this forum has been more realistic than the others that I've read regarding CP.
Good points YoEleven. I am not a Printers “fan” but I am also happy to see him at the helm if he can do something for the team. When Printers first played for the Lions about 4- 5 years ago he was our 3rd string QB. He quickly proved that he had strong abilities and talent. Hopefully he is a team player now…
The reality is Printers would love to be the starting QB all the time… what QB would not? The question is whether or not that will affect his judgement on the field. That is my concern.
I just wonder which Casey we will see next season. The MoP, 5000 yard 13 game winner or the abysmal Mr 'interception' Ti-Cat loser.
I'll be paying attention tonight to see how often he throws into coverage and how often he spots the open/single covered guy.
Gosh do I miss Dave Dickenson's ability to ALWAYS find the right guy to throw to - and hoping Lulay's Montana years (different school) give him the same natural ability.
Printers record as a CFL starter (including playoffs):
2004 BC Lions, 13-3
2005 BC Lions, 2-6
2006 **
2007 Hamilton, 1-6 (Highest paid player in the league)
2008 Hamilton, 1-7
2009 BC Lions, 0-2
** - spent trying to make Chicken Salad out of Chicken S... in the NFL
Yeah I know I'm not a fan of his, but cmon; this guy is not a winner.
And before you jump all over my back about the team he is on, with Dickenson starting in 2005 the team was 10-1
.... And sadly I must now ask, what if he goes 0-3? And what if we miss the playoffs?
Again he played fine tonight, but we still lost. Go ahead and blame everybody but Casey.
Let’s see the guy misses an entire training camp hasn’t seen any live action in over a year and is “thrown to the wolves” with starts against the Riders and Stamps in weeks 16 and 17.
He threw for over 300 yards in both games despite a make shift offensive line in front of him and basically no running game the last two weeks.
If the defence does its job on the final drive last night then the Lions would have their first win over the Stamps in eight games. Guess who the QBs were for those other 7 losses?
Everything points to Printers being the starter in 2010.
Yup. I’ve really only seen 2 or 3 plays where he looked bad. He has shown almost no rust at all and I’ve been quite impressed with him. You’ll likely see JJ get traded or cut in the off season with Buck being a very good backup and either Lulay or Champion as #3.
YoEleven, yes stats in Hamilton are pretty dismal but in fairness to Printers I remember watching several of those Hamilton games and how even you or I could have caught some of the passes he was throwing. Dropped balls, stupid fumbles, poor rushing...Printers cannot be blamed for those. Hamilton had terrible seasons in '07 and '08. 2006 wasn't much better- only 4 wins I think. Regardless of how much Printers was paid I don't think Hamilton would have faired much better even with a Warren Moon or Doug Flutie.
I think when you use statistics like that it is equally important to look at such things like how the games were lost, what key injuries there were, what Printers' passing completion stats were, what the team's total offense for each game was and so on.
I remember how worried I would get when we would have two good qb's back in the bad old days but vic rapp calmed my nerves saying that thats a good problem. may the best man win. give wally credit for finding these guys and now its up to them to do their thing and prove they are # 1.
my money is on Buck and Travis with Zac there as weill... lets trade JJ and Casey... Wally just wanted to have some trade material... the reason Casey is gone from Hanilton is Obie... and Obie knows football.
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Let's see the guy misses an entire training camp hasn't seen any live action in over a year and is "thrown to the wolves" with starts against the Riders and Stamps in weeks 16 and 17.
He threw for over 300 yards in both games despite a make shift offensive line in front of him and basically no running game the last two weeks.
If the defence does its job on the final drive last night then the Lions would have their first win over the Stamps in eight games. Guess who the QBs were for those other 7 losses?
[quote]Everything points to Printers being the starter in 2010. You said it yourself no running game , and a QB will get 300 yds passing when they abandon the running game, Gulio Caravetta said Printers looked better this game but he also said he has to be smarter in seeing the field for making choices . Our db's are terrible i agree, specialy marsh and phillips.
Provided Printers is really a changed man with his attitude.. and given a statement he's made on at least two occasions "i just handle the media different" i'm not so sure he is... but if he really can work with the team and accept any role they give him without any negativity then i'd say based on his 2 games so far he should be in camp next year unless he royally screws up in any further play time this year.
Lulay will be back.
I highly doubt Buck will be back unless he comes back from this injury and leads us to a Grey Cup. If I'm not mistaken, Buck is due a decent bonus at the end of the year. My guess is Buono will drop him before that. Realistically it's tough to keep a guy that gets injured so often around for too long. Even harder when he's the highest paid player on the team and due a bonus. As much i think Buck is the best man for the job when he's healthy, he's injured far too often.
JJ is a toss up. He's too inconsistent to be a starter but can be a very valuable asset coming in off the bench. However with Lulay and Printers, one if not both of them could be back ups and both of them cost less to keep. So my guess is JJ will probably be gone as well.
As for Champion.. i get the feeling Buono doesn't have much faith in his abilities as he's been dropped from #3 at the end of last season to #4 when Lulay became #3 and then down to #5 with the addition of Printers. If i'm right i'd expect to see Champion out the door as well.
My guess that is unless someone decent is a free agent at the end of the year and we land him, either Lulay or Printers will be the starter next season. The #3 and #4 QB's will probably be new guys found at an off season camp.
Don't be fooled by wins and losses in judging quarterbacks. Teams won or lose because of offense, defense and special teams. No blame or credit should be given when a player is not on the field. The best measure of quarterbacks is standard QB efficency rating for enough games played.
Yeah Obie knows football well enough that they wasted 3/4 of the season going with Quinton Porter until they realized Kevin Glenn was far better.
CALVILLO, A MTL 550 396 72.0 4639 71 26 4.7 6 1.1 108.4
BURRIS, H CGY 545 323 59.3 4605 62 21 3.9 15 2.8 88.1
DURANT, D SSK 526 315 59.9 4055 65 22 4.2 21 4.0 81.4
BISHOP, M WPG 378 196 51.9 2913 65 14 3.7 17 4.5 71.0
GLENN, K HAM 346 212 61.3 2757 69 17 4.9 5 1.4 96.7
JOSEPH, K TOR 336 185 55.1 2244 95 10 3.0 16 4.8 65.9
[b]PIERCE, B BC 304 194 63.8 2212 62 10 3.3 12 3.9 80.1[/b]
PORTER, Q HAM 261 167 64.0 1762 48 6 2.3 8 3.1 78.4
PICKETT, C TOR 235 145 61.7 1553 62 3 1.3 3 1.3 80.0
[b]JACKSON, J BC 155 90 58.1 1252 57 12 7.7 8 5.2 88.4
PRINTERS, C BC 66 41 62.1 676 60 3 4.5 2 3.0 99.1[/b]
Only Calvillo grades higher than Printers in efficiency (99.1) despite having no training camp and facing a couple of tough Western opponents in his only two starts.
I really could care less who is under centre. I just want the QB that gives the Lions the best chance to win every week. I liked Buck’s potential but he has proven to be far too injury prone. Why waste a 5 month off-season planning for him to be your No. 1 guy and he is one hit away from being sidelined. Jackson turns 33 next year so time isn’t on his side.
Watch Printers light it up next year with a training camp underneath him and the offence built to his strengths.
Let's get serious here... you are basing your stats on 2 games that Casey has played!!! Now that is a laugh.. Casey is no where in the same category as AC. Maybe you should also look in the win column?
Great post Chronicguy. You may have just accurately laid out in detail what is down the road for us next year as far a QBs go.
I've always liked Pierce and always felt confident about his play selections. You have to admire his tenacity. But whenever he goes down I start biting my nails wondering if he'll get up again. Even when he does get up you have to wonder if he knows where he is.
Some players are more injury prone than others for some reason. Not sure why that is. Buck is one of those players. Other players can get hit over and over and over again and bounce right back up.
Buck has suffered so many hits to the head that he may be wise to hang up the cleats.
I don't know a lot about Champion but if he had the talent and ability for this level of play I'm sure he would have been put into the game and we would not have signed Printers up.
With more experience, Lulay looks like he is a keeper but then I'm concerned about whether or not he too is injury prone.
Jarious can be dynamite but often seems to have a one track mind and seems impatient. Too many times I've seen this guy methodically move the team down the field and then out of the blue throw a 60 yard bomb only to see the play "bomb". Why do that when the team was doing so well moving the ball down the field?
I think Printers should stay. He blew the game against Saskatchewan [in my opinion] and was that close to helping the team win the game. He did what he needed to do near the end of the game against Calgary. He deserves a lot of credit for that. The defense just could not hold up. I think he is more resilient than the other QBs. The hit he took against Calgary was unbelievable. I've not seen a QB hit quite so hard and still get up. Had it been Buck or perhaps even Lulay I don't think those guys would have gotten back up.
Sure he’s no AC… but those stats are fairly damn good for a guy that hadn’t played a game in a year.
Yes he’s 0-2 as a starter… but as thirdperson already mentioned… games are not won or lost by the QB alone. The defence and special teams have to do their jobs as well. If AC had the stats he does this year and the team had our record, would that be all on AC? of course not. Just as we can not pin both losses on Printers alone.
Yes he ended the game vs. Sask. by throwing a pick… but he had us in the lead with what?.. about 3.5 or 4 mins left. The special teams gave Sask great field position and the defence couldn’t stop them when we needed them to. Add to that a brutal play call to pass on 1st and goal from the 8 in OT when all you need to keep going is a FG. So the blame has to be spread around… Printers, the D and the OC.
In the game vs. Cal. he did what you want your QB to do… drove us down the field late in the game to put the go ahead points up. There was 1:30 left… and again the D could not come up with a stop when they needed to. How do you fault a guy that isn’t even on the field for that?
Now i’m no Printers “fan”… but he’s done fairly well considering he hadn’t played a game in a year (better than i thought he would). Yes it’s been only 2 games… but if you multiply his stats in those 2 games by 9 to get an 18 game total they would be damn good numbers… maybe a few too many INT’s over a season, but you have to think that with some more time to shake off the rust that he’d correct some of those.
So if he could keep up this pace over 18 games he’d have a 62% completion rate, 6084 yards, 27 TD’s and 18 INT’s… again… a few too many INT’s but that number should probably drop with time. That would make him a top 3 QB.
Now if he put those numbers up and we were 0-18 would that be all on him?
Well Geroy SimonFan... guess it is like this.. 2004 he has a good year (I will admit that). 2005 we go with Dickenson and have a very good year... Casey is on the sidelines sulking and on his cell phone, says also that he can't play cause his shoulder is sore. Lions offer him a deal... he turns it down, cause NO Casey is going to be the big guy in the NFL. 2006 goes to Kansas City and bombs out.... 2007/2008 he plays in Hamilton... spuratically cause he has injuries, like he never plays when the Ticats come to town... so he bombs in Steel town.. and they give him the boot. Of course his ego preceeds him.... so nobody wants to touch Casey on either side of he border. Smartly the guy dumps his agent... and declares "I am a changed person... it's not about ME anymore" of course not cause he is out on the street. So Wally takes him back ....which I am still out on the street about.. cause I still don't really believe he has changed and there will be some players finger pointing if we miss the playoffs, and we will end up with this split camp again. I think he is still a "wolf in sheeps clothing". Other reason... I love to rile the Casey lovers!!! Hey we are all entitled to our opinions .. I respect yours.. all want is the Lions to get to the playoffs. I don't want to see the split camp thing again .. it ruined a good team that should have been in Grey Cup in 2005.