Stadium Precinct

City eyes $23 million to spruce up Pan Am stadium neighbourhood

[url=http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2878070-city-eyes-23-million-to-spruce-up-pan-am-stadium-neighbourhood/]http://www.thespec.com/news-story/28780 ... hbourhood/[/url]

What does this mean for parking Lot J and tailgating?

At this meeting, residents were shown the proposed Hamilton Stadium Community Master Plan, which included ideas gathered over the past year.

They were each handed colourful sheets when they walked in the auditorium of Prince of Wales School showing:

• The proposed high school-community-seniors centre (the city centre would be like the new one that just opened in Stoney Creek);

• redesigns to Cannon Street, such as converting it into two lanes and adding bike lanes;

• tearing down Parkview high school for a parking lot;

•converting King George school into residential units;

•redeveloping Barton Street;

•enhancing the stadium plaza with an ice rink and spray pad;

•and replacing ball diamonds beside the former Scott Park high school with a soccer pitch.

Residents were also shown plans for gateways, which could include flags, benches and signs welcoming people to Barton Street or King Street East. One proposal was a large metal sign that proclaimed "Stadium Neighbourhood."

About 50 people attended the meeting at the Melrose Avenue North school, which is beside the future stadium.

Consultant Brenda Khes said the $23 million would cover the spray pad, ice rink, redesigning Cannon between Melrose and Balsam Street North, the soccer pitch, the gateway features and the community centre attached to a proposed new high school at Scott Park.

She said it would also cover the creation of a new sports park that is proposed to include two new ball diamonds, a football field, basketball courts, playground and skateboard area. Khes said, however, the land would still have to be secured.

Ya know what. Whatever ends up happening the members of the Tailgate Community will make it work.
Whether it's a private lot or a park that's a short walk from the stadium or back in good ole' Lot J we'll make it happen.
Tailgating ain't gonna die that easily!
Jare

The beauty is this is an inner city stadium and not a stadium in a field in the boonies like Orchard Park. It's really part of the inner community of Hamilton and still will allow people to enjoy responsible tailgaiting with the ability to take a city bus to and from the games if need be if driving isn't advisable. Or LRT in the future perhaps for some.

I don't care what people end up calling the stadium - "high school", "a lemon" whatever their perception is that they want to apply for our new stadium for whatever reasons they may have. Sure, as Captain points out, the province and/or feds should pony up some more money to meet the design standards as orginally laid out by the city. I appreciate that and undertstand that. But let's embrace this opportunity to help make an older part of Hamilton just a bit better and try and leave our personal wants and desires and dislikes for certain people who have okayed this stadium aside. Constructive criticism is great and constructive actions are great as well.

I thought they were trying to turn the area into some type of entertainment district. It's disappointing that there is absolutely no private investment and no vision. It's all about government spending $23 million of taxpayers dollars to put in a playground, a school and a seniors residence??? It will be an area where young people will congregate ride skatekeboards, spray graffiti over everything, smash beer bottles. Crowds for football and soccer will show up just before game time and leave right after the game.
The stadium will look nice but the area around it will not change one bit.

Investing in the inner city is excellent. mike, go to the Pearl Company some time. Change starts with people setting up shop in area that many believe have no hope at all. And fortunately we have people willing to take a risk to invest in the inner city when many just say “why”?.

Curious as to what gave you that impression. I don't ever recall hearing that, nor would I ever expect that there in an old residential neighburhood. A stadium has been there for decades and never spawned any entertainment.

And this stadium will hold thousands fewer.

mike, maybe I'll see you at the Pearl Co. this weekend with Christina Martin playing. Maybe not your kind of music, thats quite ok, but she is excellent Canadian talent and wanting to play in a "derelict" Hamilton neighbourhood.

A stadium has been there for decades and never spawned any entertainment.

Captain, re-reading your post and this sentence in particular makes me really appreciate that entertainment, for example as we see in the Pearl Co. and the excellent artists they bring there, really has nothing to do with a stadium, or doesn't require anything to do with a stadium. Art and entertainment, in it's purity, doesn't require pro sport at all. Gary and Barbara understand that and appreciate that as do many fine artists that have played and will continue to play at one of my absolute favourite music venues.

But I suppose that those that see the need for a stadium to "up" their trendy entertainment area that they prefer, do see the stadium as simply a tool in that regard, rather than art for art sakes. Ok, I can see their particular point of view on that. The stadium and Ticat fans in that aspect simply fill a need for their more preferred desires. Whatever.

Councillor Bernie Morelli VISUALIZED and spoke of that area becoming an entertainment precinct over and over again soon after city council decided to build the stadium there. Without private money the idea of that area becoming an entertainment precinct was a pie in the sky idea. These "proposals" were manufactured out of thin air from the wishes of citizens. Time will tell how many of these proposals come to fruition The city will have to budgeted for them. Don't hold you breath, folks, it will take years for the city to come up with the money.

Don't recall that. All I ever recall from Clr Morelli was him wanting a seniors' centre in the area even before the old stadium was chosen unexpectedly.

Captain, if I remember from day one, Caretaker always thought, and made this public knowledge, that rebuilding at the current IWS was a viable option among a few. Prove me wrong... My guess, you can't and no one can.

Young’s love for Hamilton may have doomed Aldershot stadium, says insider

[url=http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2193040-young-s-love-for-hamilton-may-have-doomed-aldershot-stadium-says-insi/]http://www.thespec.com/news-story/21930 ... says-insi/[/url]

I know Captain, Bob is still the "enemy". Whatever you say my man with your WH clan there. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

In response to Captain Kirk recalling only that Clr Morelli wanted a seniors' centre in the area even before the old stadium was chosen unexpectedly. and him not recalling Bernie Morelli speaking of an enterntainment precinct.

Yes. Councillor Morelli wanted the a senior's centre at Scott Park and he "blue sky"ed that bars and restaurants would grow organically [ I can't believe I used the term organically] around updated city recreational facilities [rink pool, sports fields] and that the whole area would become a recreational/entertainment precinct.

As Bob stated, re-building at the IWS was the only option if they were going to get Pan Am funding. The time lines would not have allowed any other site. The IWS site was prepared and already zoned for a stadium. Things like storm drains, electricity, parking, public transit was already in place. To prep any other site, get approval for zoning and selling it to local residents would not have allowed a stadium anywhere else to be ready for the Pan Am games.

Except East Mountain and Confederation Park

Actually it was first posted by you Captain Kirk and your RTH, check out page 505 of the Stadium construction thread. You provided an RTH link about a guest speaker, a so called planning expert, who gave a lecture at Mac about - how a stadium should set up "a stadium entertainment disctrict". After that there were dozens of posts about creating an "entertainment district".

[url=http://forums.ticats.ca/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=55543&hilit=entertainment+district&start=7560]viewtopic.php?f=5&t=55543&hilit=entertainment+district&start=7560[/url]

That article was about why a stadium should go downtown/ WH, and not the IWS location.

From the article:

Rosentraub clearly states that a stadium alone is not enough to do this, and even answered that simply building a stadium as a place for a sports team to play offers nothing in gain for a city.
This is why the IWS site is a bad one.
"Build new facilities as close as you can to existing sports, shopping, housing and entertainment areas."

Rosentraub could not state the case for geographical entertainment concentration strongly enough. He said if other venues and entertainment facilities exist, of course it makes sense to locate the new facility as close to these as possible.

Instead of spending huge tax dollars to procure extra land and create an engineered space out of nothing, it makes more sense for a city to invest where these amenities are already located.

Rosentraub also alluded that monies saved on acquiring extra land could instead be used to create an iconic facility with the wow factor, instead of building a box to hold sports.

He says it is critical that a stadium have some sort of dazzle factor - be it location, design or both. If a bare-bones stadium is there just for a team to play in, it doesn't make sense for a city to invest, as it will not be an attraction.


This is why it should be downtown/WH, and not Confederation Park or east mountain

Well, I've had a few knee operations and a back operation and can easily walk, if need be, from IWS to downtown/James St. N for restaurants and other entertainment and shopping facilities near there. Not as close as WH, that I will admit, but not all that much further really. And combined with the uncertainties over the WH site such as land remediation and possible lawsuits from people like Hermann Turkstra, well, I'd say IWS was probably the best choice then available.

I was at the harbourfront this past weekend for a walk on the trail and am very pleased that a stadium isn't going there, it would provide a visual and perceptual disconnect from the downtown/James St. N area to the harbourfront. I hope that any housing or stores or whatever go there eventually, and this site will be developed eventually I'm sure, are very, very low rise to provide this connection. Or a small outdoor ampitheatre which would be absolutely perfect IMHO and tie in with the Supercrawl function or the smaller art crawls actually.

Right on, Earl. A small 2000 seat amphitheatre. I said that countless times during the location debacle. Perfect!

Captain Kirk wrote That article was about why a stadium should go downtown/ WH, and not the IWS location. From the article: Rosentraub clearly states that a stadium alone is not enough to do this, and even answered that simply building a stadium as a place for a sports team to play offers nothing in gain for a city. This is why the IWS site is a bad one. "Build new facilities as close as you can to existing sports, shopping, housing and entertainment areas."

Rosentraub could not state the case for geographical entertainment concentration strongly enough. He said if other venues and entertainment facilities exist, of course it makes sense to locate the new facility as close to these as possible.

Instead of spending huge tax dollars to procure extra land and create an engineered space out of nothing, it makes more sense for a city to invest where these amenities are already located.

Rosentraub also alluded that monies saved on acquiring extra land could instead be used to create an iconic facility with the wow factor, instead of building a box to hold sports.

He says it is critical that a stadium have some sort of dazzle factor - be it location, design or both. If a bare-bones stadium is there just for a team to play in, it doesn't make sense for a city to invest, as it will not be an attraction.

This is why it should be downtown/WH, and not Confederation Park or east mountain


You may be right a new site would have been preferrred if money and time was not an issue. But it was either the old IWS site with Pan Am (feds/provincial) funding or another site and no funding but City funding.
As Bob explained several times, the timelines for any other site could not have worked. IWS is already prepared, zoned and ready to build. Any other potential sites would have had months of hearings, site preparation, zoning issues, people in the surrounding areas may have delayed it.
A new Pan Am stadium on the old site beats playing in the old IWS.

Isn't that what they're building at the current IWS site? :wink: