Spencer Watt

There is a big difference between " opportunity to have both" and could not keep either. They were both offered deals and opted to move on. Both at different times as well so “keeping both” was most likely never a reality. Nice try though.

[quote=""BillyDee87""] ...stats mean nothing. [/quote] That's a dopey but nonetheless quite predictable statement. Never let facts and reality interfere with a blind and preconceived opinion.
Blind and preconceived. Interesting. % of passes caught has more to do with the quality of passes directed at a particular receiver than the ability of the receiver to catch passes. If 100 crap passes are thrown at a receiver and he still manages to catch 50 and another 100 excellent passes are thrown to a second receiver and he only catches 50, who would be the better receiver? Again, stats in this context mean nothing. And again, nice try though.

Regarding stats: "Not everything that counts, can be counted. Not everything that can be counted, counts." I think it is a quote from Einstein, but since I am not one of that elite group, I am not really sure? :smiley:

Kind of like the maxim "Stats are for the losers"?

:lol: :lol: :lol: Hillarious...

So now, the passes thrown to Williams were right to his hands and the passes thrown to Ellingson were “crap”. Keep on with this nonsense… I find it entertaining as your logic gets fuzzier and fuzzier! :smiley:

I like Ellingson by the way. How the Ti-Cats ever let that guy get away I will never understand.

I never once said that. Obfuscation is not argument. It appears to me that you do not have a clear understanding of what logic even is, fuzzier or otherwise. Try to keep up.

Thinking about the receivers we've had at wide side over the past few years, I'm thinking Watt may be the best I've seen. From Bauman through to Giguere, each of them have had issues, whether it's poor catching ability, lack of speed, or just poor attitude. From what I've seen of Watt, he doesn't give up on the ball when it's not right to him, and he seems to have good hands.

That’s a convenient cop-out used by certain individuals when the statistics and/or the facts do not accommodate their biased opinions.

And your use of statistics incorrectly and then attacking those who suggest that your premise is therefore incorrect based on the evidence you have chosen to use is typical of someone who cannot face reality. Perhaps we should have given you a trigger warning that we were going to challenge your reality (because we are bigots or misogynists or Seymourophobes or whatever other epithets that are routinely used to stifle debate) and then offered you a chance to get to your “safe space” before we replied.

Try rebutting our position by something other than name-calling. Which, by the way is not an argument.

Have to say I agree that Ellingson is the much better player of the two. If CW didn't have his speed, he would never have even become a football player. He is not a typical receiver in any way. Small, lightweight, not overly tall or tough. He has the physique of a teenager.

Ellingson on the other hand, tall, strong, athletic, a total package as far as a receiver goes.

I am a huge stats guy. I'm big on analytics in hockey and have been fighting people who say "stats dont tell it all" and "stats dont measure intangibles" for years. But in this case, the stats fail to show how good Ellingson is.

"Better yet, why don't you ask Austin/Tillman. I guess the answer would be neither one since they botched the opportunity to have both. :slight_smile:"

If I recall, Kent Austin had a valid player contract for Williams, and it was Williams who CHOSE not to honour it and NOT show up.

The coach did NOT botch anything.

:lol:

Semi-coherent ramblings, none of which have any relevance whatsoever to this discussion.

I give you credit for one thing… this is perhaps the goofiest attempt to explain an inferior player statistic that I have seen on this board. This beauty takes the prize!

Seymour seems to live off conflict, and I think he makes it for the sake of it. He's also one of the most blind to reality posters I have ever seen on any board. Then he has the gall to tell others they're blind. So obnoxiously un-self-aware.

Anyone who thinks stats are the be-all and end-all of a player - doesn't even deserve to call themselves a football fan. The 1990 Bombers were one of the worst statistical teams in history, and they won the Grey Cup. How do your precious stats explain that, Seymour???

The best thing for us all is just to ignore him. That will give him more time to burn Canadian flags with slim.

The simple truth is that some things that matter are difficult to measure. However, that doesn't mean the measurements we do have are completely without value.

A classic example is interceptions, where a low number of interceptions could mean a DB fails to execute when he has an opportunity to make an interception, or it could mean that he covers so well that few passes come his way and he gets few opportunities for interceptions. That ambiguity doesn't necessarily mean we shouldn't keep track of interceptions, it just means that counting interceptions doesn't tell the whole story.

Below is more fodder for discussing the value of stats. Among other things, it discusses how modern measurements in basketball allow you to make distinctions that cruder statistics wouldn't capture. For example, current methods better allow you to quantitatively distinguish between a better-than-average shooter who takes lots of difficult shots, versus a worse-than-average shooter who takes a lot of easy shots, even though both of them might make the same percentage of their shots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66ko_cWSHBU

What about OL players? They have no stats at all, other than a rare guy like Bomben who catches a TD now and then, but most never record anything more than a fumble recovery or two in a 10+ year career.

So do they all suck because they lack measurable stats?

geez, I opened this thread to see what was up with Watt....

Oddly enough…both on my ignore list along with Ryan. All tools :smiley: k

Thank you for proving my earlier points about you.

Good day sir. I said good day.

As an aside, Derek Taylor from TSN does some interesting stuff with respect to this subject.

He looks at targets, receptions, tough catches, 2nd down conversions, good yards on 1st down etc etc etc.

By no means am I saying they are the be all/end all nor worthless. Just very interesting and much more developed than the basics.

He can be followed on Twitter @DTonSC.

Anyone who has seen more than a couple rEDbLACKS games knows that Ellingson has caught many passes that others would have missed, while Williams has dropped many passes that others would have caught. We don't need stats to tell us this.

Bingo! :thup: :thup:

If and when you come up with anything factual, anything meaningful, anything sensible, anything statistically relevant to support your theory aside from the above laughable attempt, post it on here and I may respond.

Until then, others on here require my attention. :stuck_out_tongue: