Sources: Rays to explore playing in Montreal

That might be true in some aspects but ,as in the Flames situation, moving the goalposts from the city’s end also isn’t good for business as the mayor is now realizing without blaming herself.

I’m not that familiar with the Flames situation in Calgary to be honest so I don’t know what you’re actually saying. To me the Saddledome looks like the Buffalo Bills stadium, both look like decent facilities to me from the outside but I guess if the owner is squaking he/she can get a brand new arena/stadium or close enough thereof in another city which would make he/she more returns then why not go with “the stadium is outdated” “the upper deck has some leaks” etc. mantra. Meanwhile, of course, Fenway still stands and keeps on truckin.

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Well something all the more is in that water in the Tampa Bay area besides extra phosphorous and algae and local sewage (I’m not kidding on that part!), for check out this excerpt with the full story below.

One of many lessons here is that money won’t in and of itself buy good or prudent decisions.

Note some fine and insightful comments made below the article as well.

The St. Pete Catalyst has got its hands on a report by economic consultants AECOM and builders Skanska on the cost of a new Tampa Bay Rays stadium in Tampa, and it says the team is looking at spending $798.9 million for a 23,000-seat, open-air stadium. (Another 4,000 fans could stand or sit on a grass berm.) This would make it the third-most-expensive MLB stadium ever built, for the smallest-capacity new MLB stadium since, hmm, looks like Cincinnati’s original Crosley Field in 1912.

What the hell (Florida)!?

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Interesting. That’s a lot of money for a stadium that doesn’t seat a lot but let’s not forget in the game of baseball there are many games and the Red Sox have made many money over the years with a stadium that doesn’t seat nearly as many as many other stadiums in MLB. So baseball is a different beast this way in the majors with the number of games but to spend that much money on a stadium such as this, I would hope they did their focus groups and surveys and know pretty well the location and the stadium style will fit perfectly into a Red Sox type of situation. There is no question that baseball stadiums have become smaller seating wise after the era of the circular baseball/football stadiums in Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Cincinatti etc. Even Toronto has “tried” if you will to make the number of seats lower over the years to make the feeling of intimacy/baseballish more apparent. The official capacity now on Wiki is 49,282 but when it opened it was in the 51,000 range.

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Have you see the latest attendance figures?
13,500 average in Tampa
I’m sure a move to Montreal would double that average attendance, even half the games in Montreal would help.
Marlins with terrible attendance too.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/mlb/the-good-blue-jays-bad-yankees-and-downright-ugly-a-s-of-mlb-attendance-this-season/ar-AAX6qNS?li=AAggXBR

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So, uh, did you hear how the Governor of Florida essentially body-slammed the Rays for sake of the public money for their new training facility?

The news is thickly laden with the nasty of Florida politics as have been nasty since 2000, so I am not bothering to copy it here. Remember the presidential election disaster then?

I voted in Florida three times, and every trip to the polls was exceptional as compared to everywhere else I have lived and voted in the country in that it seemed like most of the people there either had never voted or could not remember the last time sort of like at a regular trip to the grocery store in Florida.

I could go on about the lack of dependable or competent people in Florida in general, but that's another thread.

Odessa, Florida is in the north suburbs of Tampa Bay and I know it from my work in the area.

I'm kind of shocked this money was even allocated for such a purpose given it is prime land for development where available as scarce as is land in Florida, but then again a lot of vacant land is not suitable for residential development for a host of reasons.

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And so it’s been a while, and well, it looks like the Rays and Saint Petersburg have settled on …redevelopment of the existing area where Tropicana Field is located.
:face_with_raised_eyebrow:

Wow, because it was such a GREAT location to draw fans, uh, before!?

The local media as usual in that town are always in the tank for whatever sports team owners are at hand.

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In fact next time I will take a video and show you all just how easy it is to travel to that stadium during a game …

The Rays stadium deal is about the land it sits on and the development rights of where the Trop sits.

Plus St. Pete’s/Pinellas Co. has always had more $$$ to pledge than what Tampa/Hillsborough Co. could.

Attendence is a red herring for MLB

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ALL stadium deals in all sports are “land deals” these days … even franchise sales can really be "land deals (e.g., Ottawa Senators).

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I lived there in the area and made that drive many times. Unless you live in St. Pete in which case yours is just an obviously self-serving post, I would disagree.

It’s best if you share more about the actual route. I know the roads well there. But maybe you won’t do that will you?

I have not seen you around this forum for a while, so when you have something actually to contribute, do please share.

Now back to do you have anything else to say on any OTHER topic whether or not “nice” according to you? I have not seen it, and I don’t spend time in those lounge threads very much if you are there but nowhere else.

Anybody here can comment on any topic here of course.

The ghost of George Steinbrenner wins again.

It’s not a great place for a baseball stadium, too far from Tampa. That drive across the causeway is not good and fans from Tampa won’t make that drive.
It’s going to end up like Tropicana field, a small number of fans from the St Petes/Clearwater area. Nothing will change.
The stadium should be in the Ybor City close to the cruise port and arena in the downtown.

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This one also goes out to those who magically think building a new stadium in the same area of St. Pete was ever a good idea.

I’ll let the AWFUL numbers talk to those delusional people.

EDIT 14 October 2023 - bump the thread please somebody?

Indeed the discussion on the Rays gets worse.

As is often the case, the dire situation in St. Pete, Florida for those Rays certainly fueled Neil deMause of Field of Schemes with all the gory details.

Here’s a sample:

Tampa Bay Times, whatcha got?

it is non-binding

Oh, goodie, so now we’re looking at a report on a non-binding draft of a summary of a proposal. Please go read something else if you want, I hear good things about that New Yorker expose of Dan Ariely.

The outline divvies up the ballpark’s total $600 million public contribution like this: $287.5 million from St. Petersburg and $312.5 million from Pinellas County…

According to the 21-page outline, St. Petersburg will contribute $287.5 million from “revenue bonds” issued by the city and tax increment revenues from the Intown Community Redevelopment Area, which includes Tropicana Field. The issuance of city debt through bonds will also have to be approved in a council vote.

Pinellas County will contribute $312.5 million from tourist development tax revenues and money from the community redevelopment area.

So that’s still $600 million from taxpayers, including an unspecified amount of money from the CRA — a TIF by another name, kicking back future taxes from a development project — plus an unspecified amount of hotel taxes plus “revenue bonds” based on revenue from ¯_(ツ)_/¯. I am so glad we have actual reported numbers now, this is so much clearer!

It calls for the city and county to each have their own exclusive suites and complimentary tickets

I will refrain for now from going very far as to how the average Florida voter, at least in my time until 2015, normally would be up in arms and take to public protests over the likes of that sort of corporate charity at public expense, but nope, in recent years so long as it’s some wealthy Florida business owner who contributes to a certain political party, now it’s either crickets from a whole different bunch of voters who moved there or “oh well let’s have a ‘discussion’ about it, hmmm?”
:unamused: