Something Has To Be Done About Toronto

The Argos are becoming a joke.
They gotta find a QB to make this team worth watching.
Cleo Lemon cannot complete anything past 6 yards.
Bell confuses which team to throw for.
The only hope is that Jyles can at least bring some offense to this team.

But there is nothing more depressing then watching a CFL game from the Skydome on tV.
The crowds are as small and bored as Blue Jay crowds.
Most Argo games are dreary defensive struggles with mistakes every where.
It just makes the CFL look bad.

The big mistake the Argos made was not building their own stadium when they had the chance.
Now they're at the mercy of Rogers and the Blue Jays who could care less about them.
Not saying football is dead in Hogtown, but Barker and his bunch aint' helping.

The problems with the Argos goes way deeper than one can imagine. Putting it all on Lemon is not fair either, thus with Bell; The lions rushed him and it clearly showed he wasn't prepared at all coming in to clean up the garbage when there wasn't any. That's what I see "OFFENSIVE COACHES TRASH". The special teams; Mike O'Shea :thup: is doing all he can muster.

Look under Argo Apathy in this section re what might be done about the argos.

I think they will have a more exciting brand of football soon. Jyles is apparently ready to go next week. I am not sure if he is the guy to take them to the promised land, but he will at least be more entertaining.

Similar to how, for the sake of the NHL, Gretzky went to LA, Fantuz should go to the Argos. :wink:

Them's is fightn' words :twisted: :expressionless: :twisted: :lol:

perhaps we should give an exemption to the Argos, Canada's biggest city, where they are alowed 1 player that does not fall under the cap, and the rest of the league can pick up the billl for giving them an unfair advantage over everyone else.

OH CRUD...I think we tried that...were those glory years or did they almost sink the league? Yeah...thats right, they did almost sink the CFL

I know your comment is not serious, but IMO if a city the size of TO can not support a team they have a REALLY crappy venue (and they do...for football), and need to relocate to another city or another venue. I don't care if the Argos are stuggling. they draw from 2.5 million in TO, 5.5 in GTA...and you can not say that a winning team alone will fill the stadium...the Leafs are always sold out.

I have been a huge supporter of trying to make football matter in toronto. this year has really got me down though.
as far as the fantuz thing... wasnt that kinda the think they were hoping with K.J. ? move him to toronto, should bring out the fans? If ricky williams cant put buts in the seats, im not sure the F-bomb can either.

oldest CFL franchise... there must be a way to get people to care.

Actually the Hamilton franchise is older (since 1869). The Argos franchise is the oldest "with the same nickname". The Ti-Cats name was created when the Wildcats and Tigers franchises were merged in 1950.

and they combined the grey cup wins as well.

It is a bigger issue then TO, at some point I think most of the teams in the league have struggled, with a number folding.

Somehow they have to get back to grass roots and a generation or two later theyll have the numbers. The country is not just hockey, football, baseball and basketball anymore. So many other competing sports and with the influx of immigrants, the base gets smaller for each sports as does the $$$$ that go into each sport, getting diluted. Football has to learn how to compete and not assume that the support is always there.

Time for a new business model similar to Hockey Canada, and every level of football working together. Hell in the winter we could pay the CFL coaches and players to get more involved with the grass roots people. We certainly see it here now in Sasky, but it is not as intense as it could be. Winter training camps for kids is one start, parent coaching clinics, etc.

The league has actually flourished very well over the past 7-8 years. They are doing a lot of things well, and I think TSH is a HUGE part of that. CBC did a Mickeymouse production, and blackouts lost a generation of fans! That fanbase may or may not ever come to love the CFL, and it is the 15-25 year olds...the exact market one wants to attract. People that age are more into the NFL, because when they were young the could not watch their own team on TV, so if you gotta watch another team play, in an 8 team leage, you are likely cheering for an immediate rival of your "home" team...may as well just go straight the the marketting machine of the NFL. I believe bringing in that generation is the CFL's greatest challange. None the less, you compare the state of the league as a whole compared to the mid-90s...those were dire days!

:thup: :thup: I've thought along these lines myself.

One of the difficulties in developing good non-imports is that we seem to look for them in the CIS. But the CIS model is completely different from the NCAA model that produces most American players (in addition to a bunch of non-imports). CIS regulations don't really allow for the kind of development that goes on in the NCAA.

Canada manages to produce the best hockey players in the world through the CHL, without involving the CIS at all. The CJFL and QJFL are the formal equivalents of the CHL, but neither really play much of a role in terms of contributing to player development for future professionals. Football Canada could take some pointers from Hockey Canada and figure how to get the CJFL and QJFL to be more like the CHL and use that league as an elite amateur league, developing future stars for the CFL and maybe even the NFL. Since the CJFL and QJFL are independent from any academic institutions, they wouldn't be limited as much in terms of how much time they could demand from their players.

(Also, I think CJFL and QJFL need to reunite and that level of football needs to expand into the Maritimes, either through their own league or in the QJFL, but that's a subject to be ignored in a different forum).

You know, the more I think about it, the more I must say that the Argos are actually doing not bad. They are averaging about 20K people for a team that not a lot are getting joy out of watching. The Riders dreamed of 20K for a lot of games in the late 90s, and look at them now. When a team gets beat down year after year it is hard to keep the attendance up. The Riders have strung together 4 respectable years and are being rewarded for it. If the Argos can finish on an up swing they do host the GC next year. I have to assume, being the 100th, that they are going to have some incredible season ticket sales, purely because people want to be at the big game. Next year is going to be critical for the club...if they can have a good year with an exciting brand then there is a strong potential to have a ripple effect for a few seasons!

Agreed. Two things are known to sell in Toronto:

  1. The Leafs
  2. Winners

Marketing the Argos would be a lot easier if they were an entertaining team to watch.

Toronto is one strange bird though. You have the Leafs farm team, the Leafs for pete sakes, hockey no. 1, right in Toronto and they draw flies, but then the MLS which is no where near the worlds best soccer leagues and they pack the place. Weird. I don't get that. And then baseball which packed the Skydome for years and then people vanished and the place is rarely half filled. After two "huge" World Series wins. Weird.

I don't the city from a sports perspective, from the soul. Don't have a clue.

I think you hit the nail on the head re: the Argos not finding a suitable venue for games.
Montreal was in the same boat at the Big Owe until they settled into their new digs.

I lived in the GTA for most of my life. Toronto supports new teams, winners, and the Leafs. That's it. TFC fits into the "new" category still, but it might last longer because the city has a lot of soccer fans in the immigrant communities and there's really nothing else that fits the bill locally.

The Jays were good. Then they were bad for a decade and people started to realize that with MLB's broken economics and lame playoff format the season was basically over with 80 games to go. So they stopped showing up. Once the fans believed the team had no chance at the playoffs for the medium-long term they stopped caring. The Jays have gotten an uptick this year because the team has gotten more promotion and has looked better.

The Rock draw alright, but should draw better IMO. That's a great team and Lacrosse is a blast live. It suffers from a very low profile in the city.

The Marlies... never should have left St. John's. The team was successful there, but the people who thought it would work in Toronto just weren't paying attention. We already know OHL teams don't work in Toronto when they do work elsewhere in Ontario, because it's not the Leafs. There was no reason to think the farm team would do better. The Leafs suck all the hockey oxygen out of the air.

The Raptors are no longer new and are suffering attendance issues as fans lose patience and hope. The NBA playoff system doesn't handicap them as much, and they're helped by bundling season ticket packages with the Leafs... but still. Give it time and that team will decline like the Jays did if it doesn't get a better product.

And the Argos... Football isn't that popular in the city to start with because it's that "other" football to half the city. The Argos have been boring to watch for years. The CFL suffers from a lower profile in the city and also some view as being a junior league (which kills the Marlies). Oh, and the gameday experience is among the worst in both the CFL and the city of Toronto because the Dome just isn't a fun spot to watch football. I was at the Grey Cup there, and while it was more fun because it was full I honestly enjoyed Renegades regular season games at Lansdowne more. (Actually the last time I was in Toronto visiting family, my local friends and I wanted to drive out to Ivor Wynne to catch a game. That they wanted to drive a few hours instead of staying in the city should really say all that needs to be said about casual fans.)

And then there's the Leafs... which defy explanation. And I say that as a Leafs fan. :slight_smile:

The Marlies used to perplex me, but I understand why they don't draw. The problem with the Leafs, is that they have never been about developing their own talent, they've always tried to trade and buy a team. Same problem with the Argos, as Rocket Ismail, Ricky Williams, and Doug Flutie are perfect examples.

Either they rush young talent far too quickly though the Marlies so no attachment is possible or they use the team to farm trading material instead of talent. Why support a team, when half of the players are going to be traded away and be tomorrows opposition? It's not about making a winning team, or hiring winning coaches, or developing their own talent which is more crucial now then ever with having to manage cap room and injuries. It's about quietly calculating your profit margin in the background, because St. John's a location that is passionate about the game isn't making as much money as the corporate sponsorship at Ricoh, or cutting travel costs, or the potential of bundling Marlies tickets with any other ticket we sell. It's a joke like just about everything MLSE runs, and add it to the Toronto attitude that the AHL and the CFL are beneath them, and you have a recipe for suck.

lets face it
the tickets are overpriced
if there was a 10 dollar per person option like there is in the jays stadium I'd go to every game.