So why was MLSE willing to have Argos at BMO Field?

I barely see anyone talking about this serious issue.

Ok. Oops, sorry forgot to add the “I’ll bite” part.

argos will continue to be in no mans land until someone gets a cfl stadium built in Markham.


Where's that?

Never heard of it.


just for you so you don't have to strain yourself :slight_smile:

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Markham is sort of like out in the boonies like say Orchard Park, or Hamilton, isn't it? :wink:

I think MLSE is more than willing to have the Argos at BMO for a few reasons.

  1. They want to be able to sell Argos/CFL TV #s to potential stadium sponsors, since BMO is not going to renew with the return they were getting on just TFC #s.

  2. Rent from the Argos = more revenues, even if it's only 10 gates a year.

  3. The values of CFL teams are on the upswing, and MLSE hopes they can get the Argos for next to nothing and use their (MLSE) mojo to make the team as popular at the stadium as they (Argos) are at home so that they (MLSE) can turn a tidy profit on a low initial investment.

If there is indeed a loggerheads in the negotiations, it's because Braley knows MLSE really wants the Argos in BMO and MLSE knows Braley doesn't have another viable long-term home for the team.

Maybe what will need to happen is for Braley to sell the team for relatively cheap but remain a minority owner so that he can profit if the team does indeed skyrocket in value under MLSE.

Basicly ...MLSE does not give a rats rectum about the Argos and were simply dickin around trying to appease the NFL to get an NFL team... Nobody cares about the Argos, but nobody want to be the villian in destroying them either..

I agree with the Dickin around part with the NFL but they were not the only ones they were dickin around with. They still needed the cities OK to make the renos even though they are paying for them. Including the Argo's in the talks locked it in. Once they got the OK and shuffles hit the ground they no longer had any Argo interest at all.
They were county on the govt not putting up the extra 10 million plus for the CFL phase 3 and they were right.
Also dicken around with the city to get it started ASAP in time for the 3 days of rugby 7's. The real reason came out when they got a bid for a couple of Gold Cup games in July after the 7's are played.
With the ton of international soccer hitting N.A. in the summer you can bet they will be in on that as well.
The huge Copa America event is coming in 2015 and propective sites in the US are out where the tournament will be held. Again you can bet they will want to be one of those sites now for a few matches. Mexico makes a summer treck to Toronto and brings its own grass to play at Rogers Center. Guess where Mexico will be playing those freindly matches now.
If you look at the video renderings the reno's it has Phase one and Phase two, the soccer parts. Phase three the CFL part is not in there nor can I see how the can fit the edzones there anyways.

I agree also that the Argo's stadium is best built outside of the toronto proper. Mrkham is and option as well as Mississiuga has also expressed interest. ( beng Mississiuga ) now has a population of over 700K. The city alone ranks it ahead of several other of the metro's in the top ten. The Peel region including Brampton puts it up to over 1.2 million.
49% of Toronto propers population are imigrants who were not born in Canada, let alone Toronto. None of which knows or cares to know about gridirion football. With only US and Canada having any kind of pro gridiron football leagues to speak of.

Can this thread not be merged with the other Argos/BMO one?

Nothing had really changed in the past few months. Short term, BMO is the best option.

At least the Argos and MLSE are taking, a proposal is with Braley so now it's hurry up and wait

No reason to merge this thread with the other one (not that the mods seem to do anything around here) unless they split all the off topic posts from the other thread, which is completely off topic, mostly about other sports or teams (NFL, MLS/TFC, etc.). Might as well keep this thread for people who actually want to post on the subject of the Argos and BMO Field.

Really like the idea of a small performance venue included in this (LA NFL stadium etc) development, if it happens, for music, theatre and that. :thup: Man, someone in Toronto should think about this with the Argos in Vaughan, Mississauga, Markham , Woodbine whereever it might make sense where there is a significant development project. On a smaller scale of course but along those lines. Not everything has to be nor is it in downtown Toronto. Not saying BMO should be discarded if the lease deal is super but if it's not and not a workable lease, then the idea of shutting down the Argos for a while with a future development in mind, like Ottawa, could be a plan.

NO Earl, Markham is pretty much central here in the GTA as available from all sides.
We have been talking for years how this location is the best for the vast majority of fans that drive from all around.
The key being in my opinion to get the hell out of the congested downtown where is suits only a minor percentage of fans.
The vast majority and real fans are from the burbs.

I think the better analogy would be Markham is to Toronto as Stoney Creek mountain is to Hamilton. Decently accessible due to a major highway (The Linc/Red Hill or 407/404/401) but a bit of a pain to get to if you aren't taking/close to the highway and a nightmare if taking public transit.

I'd take Woodbine all day, every day over Markham (that being said, I'm from Hamilton, not Oshawa) but realistically, I'd take BMO or Lamport all day, every day over either of them because of the one GO station stop along the lakeshore west line. If the Argos need to draw from outside Toronto, having to struggle with wall to wall traffic from 4-6PM on the QEW or the 401 is going to cause a lot of fans from outside TO proper, not to bother.

NO Earl, Markham is pretty much central here in the GTA as available from all sides. We have been talking for years how this location is the best for the vast majority of fans that drive from all around. The key being in my opinion to get the hell out of the congested downtown where is suits only a minor percentage of fans. The vast majority and real fans are from the burbs

ArgoT, I was just being silly, comparing what Orchard Park is to Buffalo to what Markham or Hamilton for that matter is to Toronto is just plain stupid because the Toronto/GTA and even beyond say to Barrie-London-St. Cathararines-Whitby - Golden Horseshoe, a growing area population-wise unlike Buffalo and surrounding area. Sooner or later the NHL will find Hamilton a very chic type of area/city within the GTA with the growing music industry and arts industry that it will find it would rather have a team in Hamilton than say Buffalo. Hamilton is of course hosting the Juno Awards this year. Hamilton also has one of the best private golf courses in Canada in the Hamilton Golf and Country Club (Gary Player once told me at a practice round there for the Seniors tour that this is one of the few excellent courses Canada has), very historic and a lot of money at that course let me tell you, Markham as well, probably doesn't have the arts/music character of Hamilton nor a distinctiveness factor of Hamilton but a lot of money there.

Orchard Park is basically a parking lot. :wink:

MLSE has way too much invested in TFC, this is why you will never see the Argos at BMO Field, TFC fans and Red Patchers will drive this home to the city and MLSE that it's a problem. Tottenham may have a problem because the NFL does bring in a lot of money, but the Argos and CFL won't bring in nearly enough money for the city and MLSE to get over the roundy ball fans total dislike for pointy ball and how it damages the turf:

NFL eye Tottenham's new ground as home for London-based American Football franchise
NFL sources claim a London-based franchise is "five to 10 years away", meaning Tottenham's new stadium could be ready at just the right time

Hosting the NFL at their new stadium could be highly lucrative for Tottenham, as it is estimated that Wembley makes a profit of between £500,000 and £1? million per game.
The biggest challenge for the NFL in wanting to use Tottenham’s new stadium would be ensuring the pitch was not damaged as a result.
England manager Roy Hodgson complained about the Wembley surface after two NFL games were played on it ahead of the Euro 2016 qualifier against Slovenia. Tottenham would need a design that protects the grass by allowing them to incorporate a sliding artificial pitch for NFL games. A Spurs spokesman said: “We are not in discussions with the NFL regarding the use of the stadium for an NFL franchise.

? (might have to copy and paste this link)

Basically an NFL team as a secondary tenant to a soccer team, to me it looks desperate for the NFL to go back to the days when the NFL was a secondary tenant to MLB and the roundy fans see roundy ball as sacrosanct to who they are and what they stand for, and they stand for making soccer/football/roundy ball, whatever it's called, as the premier sport above all, wherever. They will continue to fight hard and I will give them that much. Both the NFL and CFL should avoid soccer pitches, not because it doesn't make financial and other types of sense, it does, but because it gives the impression that gridiron has to piggy back on to other sports for stadiums. A value perception thing. Those days are over I think. For the sport of gridiron to maintain a prestige status of sorts.

Oh please... As long as the skyboxes are there for the suits and they can half decently fill the place, The NFL does not care about prestige... The reason baseball fields don't work is because the skyboxes are not on the 50 yardline.. This is not a problem in a soccer stadium

Bungle, I agree that a soccer stadium is a football stadium is a soccer stadium is a football stadium and round and round we go and that you can't compare that for gridiron playing in a baseball stadium that has an entire different configuration. Maybe the NFL wouldn't feel the pinch as secondary tenants in a soccer (which they call football anyways over there and even here by the Europeans) stadium unlike MLB stadiums with all the games MLB plays and as we say, the configuration. It is different, I'll buy that.

There already are 3 newer arena's that have been built outside downtown Toronto. The smaller about 5K -7K that are used for Junior hockey teams which the last was smart enough to get out of the downtown Toronto area. In '07 when BMO went up and another major league pro team bringing the number to 5.
Mississiuaga already is in the middle of redeveloping its downtown. A 25K stadium for CFL football and for soccer can be put next to the Arena. The Arena already has a OHL tenant and a NBL of Canada tenant. A stadium would have a tenant in the Argo's. Also would be able to host other entertainment events in the summer and could add a winter bubble.
Mississiuga itself arleady has 700K plus in the city and the Peel region has 1 million plus. Placing them well ahead of QC and Hamilton. In line with Calgary, EDM, Ottawa-Gatineau which have metro's of about 1.2Million.
Advantage for the Argo's should there be long stadium delay is that there is a CFL sized stadium in Hamilton. The Ti Cats had not only play in Guelph but had to spend to add seating. Moving to an alternative stadium on a temp basis is done at times in all major pro sports
Good or bad right now Mississiuaga has two teams already. Brampton has two. One ECHL, and NBL of Canada. Both arenas Hershey and Powerade have corpeorate naming rights sold and both open around 2000.