SMART,Quebec CFL talk,, Ottawa and Quebec Two City EXPANISON

I don't know why this is such an issue for you. You're arguing by yourself. I haven't said I was opposed to a new stadium and I don't believe anyone else has. I just don't see it as the priority that you do. And being that none of the ownership groups left due to stadium-related issues, I don't get this perception of yours that people are running away because it's such a slice of hell.

Regardless, Ottawans are the ones (mostly) who are going to be expected to fill it. If Ottawans like it, all the better. I think most of us agree that it needs a good cleanup at the very least though.

I might know some people who went to the soccer game there today. I'll ask if the place looks any better.

All right. I could have sworn you did, so I was scratching mu head a little bit at all that...I thought I wasn't getting your definition of "soon".

I'm not arguing with anybody. I'm simply trying to make the point that Ottawa needs a new stadium, not just another upgrade. Why do I care? I care because I am rather fond of Ottawa after living there for so long (eight years) and I still have some friends there (I think). I care because I love the CFL and it bothers me that there is no team in Ottawa and there isn't going to be one any time soon. I care because Ottawa is a beautiful city that deserves a beautiful stadium people can be proud of. I care because, in my opinion, the CFL is through with Ottawa unless they build said stadium so they can attract some serious money for a team there.

Obviously I'm alone in my passion for this issue so I'll give it a rest. For now.

Sorry, I was misunderstanding you then. I thought you were making a case against Ottawa being given a team again. This...

"The league should be looking at cities that can prove they are committed to making a team work, long-term."

...can easily give the impression that you wish the CFL wouldn't bother rather that that you wish Ottawa city council would smarten up.

rpaege your not alone there. I know alot of people just like yourself. I too want another team in Ottawa so badly. I admit I have been a little bitter towards all the politics but all in all I want more teams in Canada.


People didn’t leave to stadium issues? since when?

I remember Brunt(globe and Mail) talking about stadium issues were a likely reason.

Highest rent in the league
Lack of Luxury Boxes(IMO)
Lack of control of Concessions
No ability for non-football revenues(renting the field out for example)
No permant home base(like a store)

Now someone from ottawa can correct me if there was a Renegade store or if they know the exact revenues of the Gades, I have not been able to get access to them, although I wouldn’t mind it.

But I do remember it being said repeatedly, that the gades paid the highest of all CFL teams in stadium rent.

[url=] ... /Alouettes[/url]

There are solutions

a New stadium is the best one, a new 30-33K Bowl with say 30-40 Box seats so a team can get that top end revenue they need to survive.

Although the other big issue with Ottawa is Corporate support, who are Ottawa’s big Corporate players?

That is around 25-30% of a CFL teams revenues.(corporate sponsorship)

Why would anyone in their right mind own a team in Ottawa when it is clear from what I've read and heard that city council there wants to screw anyone owning a CFL franchise in that city with crazy rent agreements and no ability to run the complex for other events.

Even if I had 500 billion dollars I would stay away from that city council, they don't care about the CFL or having a team in their city.

And yet you continue to ignore the article in which that very same writer stated that Palmer left because he felt he couldn't make the finances work no matter what kind of deal he got for the stadium. You can't have it both ways.

The Gliebermans were expecting 5M-6M in losses in 2006. The stadium rent was said to be $650,000. Bernie was willing to pony up about 2.5M.

You enjoy playing with numbers. Even with free rent, would Bernie have stayed? No. There were obviously other factors at stake.

Boy, I shudder to think what great plans Lonie Glieberman would have hatched up with his own stadium to play with...

Regarding a store: There was one at first but the Gliebermans closed it. They had a merchandise tent during game days instead.

Call me crazy.
But would it be more marketable if the CFL Ottawa team just called themselves the Ottawa Senators?
I was always wondering why they teams didnt try doubling up a name in one city.
It might be a good thing.

yes they would have lost money with free rent, so CRFadmin, your saying that Ottawa just can't handle CFL football?

There are added things, a cheap rent + Boxes + ability to use the stadium for a concert or something each year + ability to sell the naming rights.

a winning team wouldn't hurt and strong corporate support wouldn't hurt either.

I'd rather say "I do" to Rosie O'donnell...No, what I'm debating is the extreme levels to which you're taking this stadium issue.

By no means am I denying it's a factor. But you're saying that Ottawa desperately needs a new stadium and that Frank Clair is pushing potential owners away. I think that's way overstated.

I think winning would cure all ills. Start with that one and see what happens.

lol, go ahead Rosie will go for it.

a new stadium would be enough to entice ownership, hopefully to entice Corporate partners.

there are always a load of x-factors.
like fan support, Team quality.

But Ottawa has shown one thing, they can fill luxury boxes.
there are what? 150 boxes at Scotiabank place and under 10 at frank clair stadium?

I don't expect a CFL team to fill as many boxes as a NHL team nor do I expect them to be filled for the same cost.

But going by how much other CFL boxes go for(BC cheapest Box is 14K for a full year(Just Lions), TO it's 15K for a full year(just Argos))(both are 16-20 seat suites)

for the sense the cheapest Suites are about 1.4K(12 seats)

So I'd think, I could be wayy way off. but I'd think 40-50 Boxes of say 20 Seats could sell in Ottawa for Atleast 12-14K for a full year.(also add in a few party suites)
That's alot of high end seating and yearly revenue.
Waiving a new stadium that can be leased to the team for atleast full use between May and November(not just rented for the 10 games) for say 500K a year (includes for control of concessions/stadium naming rights)

that is what? atleast a 1M$ difference in yearly revenues + 750-800K from TSN deal = 1.75M difference?

Providing the fans are there and community support is there a team should be able to atleast survive.

The Glieberman losses were huge, but selling 6K season ticket packages at 99$ was a good start to the failure, also being last in the league(atleast compared to 2006 Season ticket numbers) doesn't help either.

in a new stadium hopefully there would be 15K season ticket holders paying 200-400$
and the team would HOPEFULLY average 25K+ fans per game

ALOT of hopefullies, but everyone(from Ottawa) says they have great fans, so the fans should show up to a beautiful new stadium, with a competitive team(say 6-12 first year).

If a new Ottawa team joined with QBC(providing they get a team)
the league should be very competitive.(with an expansion draft system that allows team to get starters)
But that is a whole different issue.