rumour about Jim Balsillie's intentions

Hey, I heard one, or made it up :wink:

Jim Balsillie has put forth his intentions to run Copps, Hammer Place and the Convention Centre. The City is going to counter by offering up yet another liability....Ivor Wynne Stadium.

What will this do to the lease the Cats have?

Should Bob partner with Jim and buy up the West end of downtown level it and start over? Maybe level the whole downtown? The City did this with a misinformed vision in the 70's with minimal success. These guys look like community builders. Jim builds RIM office complexes all over North Waterloo, Bob builds and nurtures digital communities. Bring them together and transform the Hammer.

I hope Hamilton gets the Predators. I'm a Leaf fan but it would look good on the teachers union if Balsillie goes into Copps and thumbs his nose at the Leafs and Sabres for that matter when they ask for money.

Maybe Bob can get him interested in a CFL franchise for London. :wink:

Not going to happen.

Kitchener Predators 2009.

Stanley Cup Champions 2012.

The end of the Mayan calandar...

I dunno what is gonna happen with all this talk about the NHL and Balsillie. I don't think that Kitchener/Waterloo is a good area for NHL, its a University area. The area would have to be developed around the NHL team.

Heh, and if the preds do come to Ontario in anyway shape of form even though I'd love to say "Ockham was right" 5 years down the road I don't see it happening.

The NHL has to approve the move to Canada and if they do I can't see it being ANOTHER Ontario city.

I always wanted another NHL team here, the first one didn't fail because of a poor showing in ticket sales they moved to NYC and failed because of a contract dispute between the players and owners.

I am not an unrealistic guy, it would take the right amount of interest and a lot of marketing to make a team work here. But its something I'd love to see it, NHL games in the winter and CFL in the summer.

Hamilton Steelers 2009 !
Hamilton Steelhawks :stuck_out_tongue: !

N-H-L might be in HamiLtoN but Hamilton will never be in the NHL...period

Thats Clever..but wrong..

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Hamilton had an NHL team..and some very famous names associated with it.

Art Ross - Coach (yes same guy as the trophy)
Joe Malone
Shorty Green

All in the Hall of Fame mind you. This city has NHL history, lets just catch that up to present day.

As I've said before:
"Hamilton will get an NHL team when Toronto gets an NFL team."
And we all know the likelihood of that happening.

I think that Hamilton will have an NHL team. Balsillie knows what he's doing so I think that in the next 3-4 years Hamilton will be the home of an NHL team.

Hamilton Steelhawks or Steelheads-Has a good ring to it doesnt it :smiley:

Hamilton won't get an NHL team...

because then Toronto would want one!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Not this movie again. :roll: Hamilton being used as pawns again in a continuous leveraging maneuver by slick business men and the politicians eager for recognition for snagging Balsille, are taking the bait yet again. Gullible and naive to believe it but too tempting not to.

This joke is older than the NHL itself.. and STILL isn't funny

Ah training camp is on, the Bulldogs are in the Calder final and J.B. is going to bring the NHL to the Hammer. Okay well two of three are true.

Here’s a plan for everyone just for fun. J.B. talks to Hamilton city hall about a three year guarantee to bring the Preds to Hamilton as Rim Arena is being built in K.W. the city fathers agree to a deal as long as J.B. and the Caretaker agree to but up 35 million each toward the new LULURIM stadium to be built on the Hamilton waterfront within three years of the complexion of the RIM arena in K.W. 35 million+ 35 million +35 million from the city = a great new stadium. A great deal cheaper then spending how much on repairs to city hall 50-60 million. And J.B. doesn’t spend 100 million to upgrade Copps for just three years.

Two billionaries who get things done and NHL hockey for three years tagged on with a new football stadium, crazy yeah I know. I guess to even toss in the idea of a one of a kind hockey/football facility would be to crazy again, yeah I know it’s never been done, it would be a first. Probably to technical for two guys who are into technology, engineering and potential profit.

I know, I know, too much time on my hands today.

As a matter of fact, seeing who it came from, I can't agree with you.......I can laugh all day reading this one again......thanks hendy77

I've heard it a thousand and one times and it still cracks me up.

A competing franchise would be the best thing for Leaf fans. It may force the TML ownership to get serious about contending for a Cup rather than just catering to the corporate elite season ticket holders.

If Hamilton isn't good enough for a NHL team (debating it is like beating a dead horse)

then Kitchener / Waterloo is for sure not good enough for it, done and done

and I agree with Ockham, a team in Hamilton would get MLSE off their butts and starting to change the team..I mean I am a Leafs fan a diehard one as much as I am a Cats fan and one thing I can say I have witnessed in my life time is my CFL team holding the championship trophy..but my NHL team, my leafs have become complacent.

They never really make any large improvement in a push for the cup, they always seem to end up at the same spot as the season before that. I think with a team so close, one that could be more successful than Toronto standings would..

A)Lure Corporate sponsers to the Hammer
B)Lure Fans to a successful team
C)Lure television coverage to another team

The Leafs are an Original six team..they have history thats great but myself and other Leafs fans are getting tired of the way things are run in Toronto.

I have been a NHL fan my entire life and have never been to a Leafs game because I cannot afford it. The gas, the ticket, and concessions make it pretty pricey for one night out to see the leafs.

Hamilton or K/W would carry cheaper tickets less driving and probably a fun show..I would be a season ticket holder.

If Hamilton does get a team both Toronto and Buffalo will have to okay it because Hamilton sits inside of both their radiuses. And even before that the NHL and the owners would have to approve the sale, and Copps would need major upgrades. So wheather you would like a team here or not, there are many process that would need major negotiations and time.

I am against Hamilton getting an NHL team.

Exactly why it won't happen.

The combined population of Kitchener/Waterloo, Cambridge and Guelph is that of Hamilton's. There is plenty of land available and 401 access to Toronto and London within an hour's drive. Hamilton is also close by with a forty five minute drive up Highway 6.

Balsillie's a KW guy. Just like our Caretaker has a soft spot for the Hammer.

Food for thought from the Fan590's Prime Time Sports sub-site:

"PTS Special Edition: Richard Rodier

Richard Rodier, spokesman and lawyer for Jim Balsillie, discusses the conditions surrounding the purchase and potential relocation of the Nashville Predators."

Page: ... sports.xml

Podcast file: ... rodier.mp3

Some of the armchair legal theorists in this thread should listen to this podcast. Things are not as cut-and-dried as they seem from my listen of this.

The NHL board of governors apparently has a simple majority vote necessary to move a member club and are bound by a number of objective criteria in determining the propriety of a move (it is not a purely subjective exercise). Hamilton meets two of a number of important criteria named by Rodier in the by-laws: 1) an existing facility and 2)a demographically sufficient population base in the area with a significant potential hockey market.

The Leafs' terrritory limit of 50 miles (80 km) is not questioned. The Sabres' claim, however, is not clear from a measuring-stick standpoint nor by precedent in prior NHL exhibition games at Copps where apparently the Leafs were solely compensated for the "territorial infringement" (not the Sabres).

Territorially-infringed teams have a veto according to the by-laws: however, a subsection declares that if the league's legal advisors find that this "veto" provision is unlawful, a simple majority vote of the governors would be necessary to approve a relocation of a team into another team's territory. Given the Al Davis antitrust history with the NFL in the States, basically this means that a member club's veto isn't enforceable in the US. Would Canadian law follow suit? Ia a territorial limit an illegal restraint on trade and thereby unenforceable by competition law?

The amount of any indemnity is also not based on a concrete number. Rodier discusses this point in the podcast as well.

Canada's Competition Bureau is examining the NHL's territorial policies.

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There is also a question of what timeframe notice would have to be given to the city of Nashville by the ownership to terminate the lease. One interpretation is that it only takes two consecutive seasons of sub-14,0000 average attendance for Predators games to trigger a clause allowing for a 60-day period where the ownership can announce the default of the lease inside 60 days from the last game of the regular season for the club FOR THE DURATION OF THE LEASE. According to Rodier, it could be argued that the lease is vulnerable since the last season before the lockout (2003-04) and the first post-lockout (2005-06) saw the Preds below 14,000 in average attendance per game.

For this year, notice by the current owner (Craig Leopold)would have to be given by June 19. Balsillie's approval would likely fall after that date, so it's a likelier scenario this year with Leopold.

The lease runs to 2028. As long as the lease is fully into effect, the ownership of the team is bound by a covenant to have the team play in Nashville. If it falls into default, there is a out clause that would allow Balsillie or whoever else owns the team to start the process with the league to leave Nashville.

Therefore, if the current owner gives notice before the 60- day window closes, the lease could be in default, upon which the city of Nashville and other state authorities would have one year to rectify the default situation. Rodier goes into the scenarios in that event, including what Nashville could do to save the team.

Obviously Rodier is speaking from his standpoint on these questions, but his justifications for his opinions on many points raised in the interview are interesting if not legally watertight. What it did for me was indicate the Leafs/Sabres grip on Hamilton is not black and white by any stretch.

We shall see, indeed.

Considering what Rodier is bound not to say by current nondisclosure pacts he has, McCown and Kelley should get props for getting some of these issues discussed to the extent Rodier could or would do so.

Oski Wee Wee,

Some of the armchair legal theorists in this thread should listen to this podcast. Things are not as cut-and-dried as they seem from my listen of this.
Seeing how it appears that I was the only person in this thread to bring up some 'legal' issues, I would like to thank you for further proving my point....
So whether you would like a team here or not, there are many process that would need major negotiations and time.

Less an issue of negotiations, but votes and potential legal fights... LOL

The vote issues would clearly be a year-to-year situation because the league needs to set a schedule and establish a team in other ways. If the notice is given this month, the lease would potentially be in default until a June 2008 deadline. League votes could occur in a April-to-June 2008 window in that scenario, the timing depending if the Predators make the playoffs, as the league will have the attendance information to verify whether the 14,000 target has been met. Note that the city of Nashville cannot buy the shortfall of tickets post facto according to Rodier's interpretation of the lease.

June 2008.

Balsillie will likely have an exclusive arrangement / renovation deal for Copps in tow by then with the the City of Hamilton in full backflip mode in that eventuality.

Negotiations with the City of Hamilton would be a blur if there was a concrete posibility of a vote-delivered franchise relocation to Steeltown. A blur given Balsillie's past history with Hamilton re finder franchise rights to Copps, etc.

The NHL votes would happen. Balsillie wouldn't be "negotiating" with the other owners as much as confirming that the lease would be terminated because of the expired deadline on the default and that a relocation would be necessary. Politicking, not negotiations per se.

Balsillie would be approaching the league with a concrete relocation proposal to a predetermined city. It is clear to me that a Southern Ontario location is in play for any relocation -- and having Copps is a big advantage over a yet-to-be conceived Oktoberfesthalle in K-W. LOL

Hamilton's arena is bigger than Winnipeg's, it has a more certain hockey market in its metro and region than K.C. No other competitors for a relocation have the combination of an arena and potential NHLhockey market comparable to Hamilton's. Not Vegas. Not Portland, Oregon. Not Seattle. Only Winnipeg, with a shortfall in the range of 2,000 seats in their building from what I understand - but a markedly smaller demographic in a regional sense.

Quebec would be a longshot, IMHO, because Copps shapes up quite well versus Le Colisee and its metro area is still much smaller than Southern Ontario.

The eight-million-plus hockey market in the Golden Horseshoe may factor into the calculations of the NHL BoG far more swiftly if it's clear the Preds have to leave Nashville.

The Leafs and Sabres may scream blue murder, but if the league as a whole gives a simple majority to the relocation, it will become a court battle at worst to determine the territorial claims and fees therefrom.

If the league as a whole gives a Hamilton relocation a majority vote, then the NHL will work to reconfigure its TV deals to meet the needs of a Hamilton franchise in the most equitable manner for the rest of the member teams. It may break the Leafs' stranglehold of HNIC in Southern Ontario.

Balsillie is cutting a cheque for $225 million or so for the Preds now. He has deep pockets and enough opinion siding with a challenge to the NHL territorial policies to make any "negotiation" of territorial fees rather speedy, I would surmise.

The Ducks paid the Kings $30 million approximately as part of their franchise fee to enter the L.A. area. A $40-50 million tag today would be an equivalent going-rate if indeed a forkover would be required.

I think that's in Balsillie's ability to pay. I may be wrong, but given the press, I doubt it.

Here again, if Balsillie leaves an untenable Nashville situation with the required votes to relocate, then the accelerator will have been engaged.

A Hamilton team could play in the NHL within the next 3 years without major "negotiations," just the required votes and any court fights that come up that might drag long into the new life of a Hamilton franchise.

I wasn't trying to single you out as an armchair legal theorist ( although I might be in that select crowd too LOL). My comments are directed at those people who participate or read these threads who are immediately dismissive of a potential Hamilton team because MLSE or the Sabres could summarily quash it. 'Taint so easy.

Let's be clear. Balsillie has been doing his homework on these points. Nashville needs to step up behind the team to meet the targets specified in the lease.

Nashville Predators? Hamilton Tigers? Winnipeg Jets? Kansas City Scouts Mach Two? Nothing is certain except hockey fans in Nashville need to mobilize and snap up tickets post haste.

Oski Wee Wee,