Its all fun and games until someone loses an eye
I watch all the games so I could have confused which one. I AM sure that it was a new player in his first game and the Als returner was that. Whichever, though, I am certain that he did touch the knee intentionally. I played it back a few times. He immediately stopped further movement, let his body go loose and standing still, held the ball lackadaisically in one hand straight down beside his right thigh. He had clearly in his mind given up.
If touching a knee intentionally is allowed anywhere anytime, as the offered examples would suggest then it should have been an "unnecessary roughness" call unless there is a rule forbidding touching the knee except in certain defined scenarios. That was the question I was asking.
I do recall the play...it was a bit odd.
The Als returner (punt or FG try, can't recall) ran from one side of the field to the other trying to find a lane then ran back towards the middle of the field then very quickly went to a knee and then started to pop up again. In amateur, that ends the play. In pro, it doesn't...thus no whistle and then the hit. To be fair,the coverage man didn't hit the returner in a dirty manner and more or less rolled over him but more importantly, was already kind of in motion from what I can remember so no reason to flag him.
Perhaps the returner was thinking ofthe NCAA rule which I believe to be the same as Cdn Amateur....onceanything other thanthe ball carrier'shands or feet touch the ground the play is dead regardless ofwhether or not you were contacted by a defensive player.
As well, I do recall that the CFL officials are supposed to whistle the play dead of a player "gives himself up" (whatever that means) but the play in question was just too quick so no opportunity for help that way.
The returner wasn't hurt but if he was I think he'd have to bear most of the responsibility given the unexpected knee to the ground. He could have done the hook slide thing then all the defender has to do is touch him for the whistle....if the defender tries to injure him then you've got the UR or RP/DQ.
It was an interception by a Winnipeg DB against the Argos. It was NOT the Alouettes/Stampeders game, nor a punt return.
The DB was trying to gain yards after making the interception, saw that he had nowhere to go after a while, stopped and dipped his knee towards the grass. I am not absolutely sure that he actually touched the grass with his knee. He did not stay down for more than a micro-second before standing up and walking casually away. He was then clocked by one of the Argonauts offensive linemen since there was no whistle to end the play.
He should have stayed down if he was giving himself up.
...play to the whistle
I agree....but lets get back to the fake knee.....you let up and he takes advantage...you don't and risk injuring him and getting a fine.....
Reminds me of a game this year
Wpg 2nd stringer QB
Hands off the ball to his RB but does a beautiful fake where he makes it look like he still has the ball(hold up his hands in a throwing position) It worked so well that he was tackled by a d-lineman....FLAG on the d-lineman for roughness
IM not saying that should not be allowed but you should not be allowed to fake taking a knee,,,,,,
and by the way the ref was an idiot
...but if you play to the whistle in that case, you're safe...either the ref gets sucked into the fake knee too and blows the whistle, in which case you don't hit the guy (and his fake gets nullified), or the ref sees the fake, doesn't blow the whistle and you keep going at ramming speed, because, hey, live play...you can't get penalty/fine because a guy exposed himself with stupidity and you played it legit...
The relevant parts of the deal ball rule...
[b][u]RULE 1 – CONDUCT OF THE GAME [/u] SECTION 4 – DEAD BALL[/b] The ball is dead: • When the quarterback, in possession of the ball, intentionally kneels on the ground during the last three minutes of a half • When a player, having possession of the ball in their own Goal Area, intentionally kneels on the ground • When a ball carrier is on the ground and, in the judgment of the official, is not attempting to advance the ball, the official shall immediately declare the ball dead.So outside the goal area, taking a knee only applied to quarterbacks, and only in the last three minutes of each half.
The third point here could apply to a non-QB taking a knee, as taking a knee would qualify as being on the ground. But in this case, the player immediately left the ground when he stood up, so this rule would no longer apply. He was fair game to be tackled.
CFL 2018 Rule Book, Rule 1, section 4, page 14:
"When a ball carrier is on the ground and, in the judgment of the official,
is not attempting to advance the ball, the official shall immediately declare
the ball dead."
It doesn't sound as if the guy was "on the ground" (I assume they mean in the down position, either lying on the ground or taking a knee), so even though he wasn't advancing the ball he would have been fair game to be tackled. Welcome to the pros.
But the ref wont blow the whistle until you touch him so it doesn't matter if he saw the fake or not
In the case I am talking about. the Kicking team slowed down so they could just touch the returner while his knee was down...
When the returner saw this....he took off.Its takes time to go from slowing down to speeding up again....they lost yards because they had no choice but to hold up
I have always been under the impression that if you took a knee, you were failing to advance the ball and the play would be over (ie. Giving yourself up). It happens with defensive players all the time with interceptions. Take a knee or run out of bounds.
If a player wants to fake a play like that, I say let them get crushed the next time. For example, a QB fakes a kneel down and throws a pass, a player will jump the centre next time he tries a kneel down. Ben Roethlisberger did that a couple seasons ago.
Yeah I am wrong
I went to check the opening point single in the Mtl Cal game and the ref blew the whistle as soon as he knelt, not when he was touched
If you pretend to take a knee…the play should be dead. Its a safety issue
Based on the rules I posted earlier, the play is dead as soon as a player intentionally kneels in the goal area, or as soon as a QB kneels during the last three minutes of a half. Any other time, the play is dead as soon as a player on the ground, including one taking a knee, is either touched by an opposition player or, in the judgement of the official, no longer advancing the ball.
A fake knee wouldn't trigger any of these conditions. It's similar to running down the sidelines and stepping out just before being hit in order to draw a UR penalty. Cheating, in my opinion, and should be disallowed.
I seem to recall Damon Allen frequently would run to the sideline and if he notice the defender ease up, he would cut back up field for more yards.
Next time he would do the same thing, but the defenders being burned before doesn't let up, so Damon takes a quick set out, gets hit and draws the penalty.
I agree this shouldn't be allowed and some penalty assessed, cause the defender is in a no win situation.
Flutie used to do it too.