Roughrider fans are not used to a GM making swift decisions!

I think I know why so many fans were surprised or shocked and upset about Crandell being released..

think back, way back.. to when Shivers was here, and even earlier than that!

A player would suffer and suck, and not perform.. but he'd continue to play here! no worries of being cut!

Shiver's would say "it's ok boy, you dont' have to worry! here in Shiver's gang, you are safe!"

Now Tillman, a WINNER comes in.. who doesn't like to lose at all..

Crandell struggles, constantly.. and says "that's it, we can't afford this!"

and cuts him...

we as fans are not used to a GM who does his job properly!

a good GM will make the moves necessary to make this team a winner and Shivers was NOT one of those!

people here need to have faith! because for so many years we have been used to having GM's that are complete losers and had no guts to get rid of the crap on our field...

look at the old days..

Elgaard was past his prime, so was Narcisse.. among many others.

Ford never did anything.. too scared to upset anyone!

if Tillman had been around those years? you can BET that those players would not have been there.

Just checking to make sure I have this figured out. ET was the same GM that made Crandell our starting QB, right? That was a nice, gutsy, swift decision, right?
And for those keeping track, that claim Roy Shivers never made changes and stuck with a QB too long, the longest any QB played in that era was 2.5 years, and we had 5, count ' em, 5 starting QBs in 7 years. Not counting guys like Butler or Glenn. Yep. That's the old status quo for you....
I think it is hilarious that so many people are using the dismissal of Crandell as proof of how effective ET is as a GM when the reality is, by cutting Crandell, it is an absolute admission by ET that he screwed up big time....

no one is perfect!

If shivers was still here, we'd still be using Crandell and we'd have
NO Grey Cup!

Pretty sure Roy was the guy who brought in KJ. Try again.

but kj was useless until Tillman brought in Kent Austin, check mate :slight_smile:

I am thinking checkers might be your game....
Look. It has always been this simple. ET does what ET does. If people want to talk about that great. But if their arguments as to why ET is so good depend on tearing down another individual and generally fabricating facts to do so, then I will say something.
Claiming KJ was useless in 2006 or even before that does not bear scrutiny. He played through a serious injury in 2006 and played quite well given that situation.

with the professional guidance of Danny Barrett. Actually not giving Tillman credit, it was Austin, and its chess not checkers,lol


Arius, he may have made an error earlier, but he's rectifying that error now through his actions. I haven't seen that by a GM in Saskatchewan in a very long time.


Tillman is doing what it takes to win! He had to do what he did with Joseph because of money, not talent. he Saw an opportunity to improve this team and so getting Bishop and releasing Crandell was a good thing.

If you wanna win, you can't be friends with everyone!

Winning takes making a few enemies at times!

Like I said, stick to checkers...or maybe tiddlywinks is more your speed.

It remains to be seen whether or not anything has been rectified by this latest move. Personally, I think it was a gross overreaction. But perhaps a new situation is what Bishop needs to move from being a career back-up and underachiever to something more. Time will tell. I still believe Durant, and possibly Jyles wil be our starters in the very near future. Bishop likely will be gone in a year.
As for a GM "fixing" a QB issue, as I pointed out. We didn't have a QB in 2000, so we brought in Burris. Then he left, and we tried to go with Marvin Graves. When that didn't work, we brought in Nealon. Very similar to this move by ET. Except it was done in the off season when deals like that make more sense. Then when we had a chance to pick up Crandell, we did so. And he actually started for us. But realizing he was not the guy, we then made a deal for KJ. And won a Grey Cup. Trying to claim Roy Shivers and DB never made changes and were status quo does not bear up to the facts. So we only need to go back one GM before ET to see the type of "rectfication of a problem" that we are talking about with ET. And really? The problem this year was all ET's own creation. Roy never asked Burris to leave. He didn't ask Nealon to break his leg. So yeah, kudos to ET for rectifying a problem. That was 100% his own creation. But no need to slag on Roy Shivers because of it!!

Whether or not it fixes the situation doesn't matter one iota to me, frankly. The fact that he recognized his error and took steps to attempt to remedy it speaks volumes to me. If he stood pat and did nothing, then there is reason to voice concern.

To be honest, it is more and more evident that people are bitching just for the sake of bitching...doesn't matter why, doesn't matter over what, they just want to be critical, because they obviously know better how to organize a professional football team...

I will continue to question the merits of any argument which says the Joseph deal was about money. In part perhaps, but on my list of top ten reasons for that deal it barely registers.It remains to be seen if the team is improved by aquiring Bishop. I think we had the worst starting QB in the league with Crandell. Now with Bishop, I believe we have the guy who was the worst starting QB in the league last year. I don't even think he was the best 2nd stringer in the league....I don't see the big upgrade.....hopefully he will prove me wrong.
Plus the potential hit to team chemistry remains. A month ago, we were told we had 3 QBs that we were confident in, and that could win for us. Now, apparently, the message is, "actually, we didn't really believe we could win with any of the QBs we currently had, so we had to get someone else". Hopefully Ken Miller can spin that message differently, and the team will buy in. But that was not a positive message.

Like I said, Jm, if people want to debate the merits of this deal, great. Some people think Bishop will be terrific, some people, such as myself will need to be converted. I was not a Crandell fan, and won't particularly miss him. I think the organization screwed him, but that is another issue. Just from a talent point of view, don't let the door hit you on the way out! And from that viewpoint, Bishop can't be worse....
But claiming ET has done something never seen before in Riderville is a stretch. Actually...maybe not...I'd like to hear if anyone can think of another pro team that ditched their starting QB mid season while occupying 1st place. About the only example I can think f was Hamilton ditching Maas for Printers. I think Hamilton was in last place.....
But the facts tell us that Roy Shivers not once, not twice, but 3 times made a move at the QB spot to upgrade, not counting brining in Crandell, so claiming it has been a long time since this occured doesn't fit...
An argument could be made that what ET has done is more like what Al Ford use to do....bring in has been and never were QBs that are cheap like Worman, or slack, even Burgess in his second try...guys whose best before dates had expired...
The games are played on the field, so we will see. But on paper, we had the worst starting QB in the have the worst starting QB in the!!

I thought it might be fun to point out that even with Jason Maas last year, he had actually lost his starting job before they got rid of him.

Very interesting take on this... but you left out one big "fact" in all of this.. Shivers never asked Burris to leave, but he did not give him a real incentive to stay either. If Burris did re-sign and lost out to Nealon for the starter's job, then we would have stood pat for that season. Same two starters, and as it turns out, HB has never gotten past the WSF in Calgary, so we might have wound up without a GC win last year, because if we had kept Burris and Greene, no need for KJ, right? The only reason KJ had a MOP season was because of the presence of Austin as his head coach. Joseph has only provided one glimpse of the MOP player this year- in a game against Edmonton. There are other players other than the QB that the previous regime kept around for way too long. There are plenty of examples, so figure it out for yourself.

Basically the trade of KJ now looks like this- KJ for Bishop, January and a conditional draft pick.

Sorry you feel that way, Jm. But Roy Shivers should be lauded by Rider fans for the job he did, not crapped on.
And I am pretty sure my position on Bishop is 100% consistent. Just like my position on Crandell was. I am sure I could find quotes from last year where I said he was a weak point for the Argos. Now that he is a Rider, should I be saying he is a strength for us?
But I'll say the same thing I said about Marcus. If he plays within himself, doesn't try to do too much, and manages the game, we can be successful with Bishop at QB. I do not expect him to be great, I don't need him to be great. I just need him to be meteorically mediocre like he was with the Argos last year. That will be enough. Though I still believe Durant will be our starter by year end. And if not, then next year--assuming he can be re-signed.

umm Excuse me??

the reason Burris didn't work is because they were so dead set on stupid Nealon Greene!

Burris would have worked if Shivers would have woke up and realized that Greene was pathetic.

WE might still have Henry today if it wasn't for jackass Shivers.

I dislike Shivers, I have always disliked Shivers, and I hope he does a wonderfully craptacular job with B.C. so everyone can see what a phenomenal decision was made by letting him go (years too late, imo, but better late than never)...that said, I by no stretch believe the sun shines out Tillman's nether-regions, either. Regardless, this thread shouldn't be about Shivers, so discussing this over-done argument yet again is pointless and very annoying.

Personally, I don't care who likes Crandell or who likes Bishop, or who expects what from either of them. What I do care about is that for the first time in a while, the Riders have a GM who appears to give a crap about what happens with the team and its' possible successes, and if it appears things are headed in a negative direction, shake-ups are made to help correct it.

It has been said that Miller wanted Bishop when the season started, and its a bold move to make when you are 6-2 and in first place. The last 2 game have been brutal, and IMO, a change was needed.